s250 need hard / no starting guidance

[ifican]

So over the last 6 months been sitting more then riding. Between waiting on parts and wfh the scooter hasnt been utilized much. Today put it all back together and it struggled hard to start. Had to eventually hold throttle open some to get it to go, prior to that it sounded like it was going fire but never did. Once started though ran like a champ, went about 12 miles city and hwy driving, up and down hills no problem. Stopped, shut off and tried to start, again just crank crank crank then finally it started. Ran it back home pulled into driveway shut it off and tried to start it again. This time nothing just cranking, I dont think its fuel or spark as when it starts it runs great. Though i am open to testing / looking at anything. What i dont want to do is randomly buy parts without a logical path as to why its needed. Any input?

[TLRam1]

What was wrong with it before and what parts did you put on?

[ifican]

just maintenance things (belt, air filter, rollers). It ran fine after getting it all back together then it sat a few weeks. Interesting thing is after letting it sit for a couple couple hours it fired right up. I havent tried today so that is still an unknow.

[ifican]

new twist, went to try starting it today and the started got stuck on. Flipped the kill switch, turned off the key and it just keep cranking. If i turn the key on it would start and when i turn key off or killed motor starter just kept cranking. Scrambled around the garage to find a screwdriver to pull battery terminal. Finally stopped. but if i touched the positive terminal with wire it would start cranking again. Any input on this strange behavior?

[xsel777]

That exact same thing has been happening to me too.
The shop replaced the starter solenoid with a Chinese copy, and it still happened.
Luckily I found an original solenoid that was in the scoot 2 years ago(replaced when troubleshooting starting issues)
Since then, no more running on problems.
Research indicates a possibility it also can be the actual starter switch.
There was also reference to a starter relay as a possible cause, usually lives under the front plastic.

 Sent from my Samsung Note 3 with Tapatalk

[hypophthalmus]

As xsel777 alluded to, it sounds like the starter solenoid is stuck in the on position.

[CROSSBOLT]

Current is so high the contacts "weld" closed. Usually caused by cranking with a low battery or bad connection in starter circuit (heavy wire circuit between battery and starter THROUGH start relay/solenoid).

Karl

[ifican]

after posting i went digging around and eventually just opened the manual i have. The manual says the same, so ill pull it apart eventually and check it out. I havent started to look but looks like quite a bit of plastic has to come off to get to solenoid. Going to take a good week before i get some time but will post back when get it working. Though i am not sure this is the reason its not starting correctly.

[hypophthalmus]

Not sure, but  there's a chance you might be able to get away with just taking out the seat/underseat storage.

[ifican]

So had a few minutes last night to look, under seat plastic removes (i forgot about that) and makes getting too solenoid very easy. Put an ohm meter on it and it was wide open. Took it out and whacked it a few times to break loose inside, works fine now though does not start well still. Backfired on me good too. I am leaning towards fouled plug at the moment and am hoping to check it out sometime this coming weekend.

[TLRam1]

Plug issues are not the norm these days, guessing you have pilot circuit issues within your carb. Clean your pilot circuit, pilot jet and orifices. 

[ifican]

Good call on plug, it looks good with nice clear spark. Carb is pulled just havent yet had time to disassemble and give a good cleaning. Appears was flooded though as plug was really wet. Once more thing to think about for sure.

[TLRam1]

Keep us updated, remember, do the carb really good and right the first time, doing it over takes longer.

If it was flooded and you did not flood it trying o start, you will need to check your choke circuitry, float levels and also making sure it shuts the fuel off as it should at the proper level.

[mrbios]

Current is so high the contacts "weld" closed. Usually caused by cranking with a low battery or bad connection in starter circuit (heavy wire circuit between battery and starter THROUGH start relay/solenoid).

Karl

I second CrossBolt's analysis and suggest the following:
1. Battery should be tested /replaced.  Can be charged on the bench then hook up and turn the scooter on for 30 seconds but don't crank the engine, turn off and test voltage with a multi-meter the voltage should read at least 12.3v (full charge a good battery should read 12.5v).  I have found the GV / People 250 need a strong battery that cranks the engine rapidly or the scoot will have trouble starting.

2. excessive cranking damaged the solenoid and or starter relay.  I suspect this is the real culprit across brands and scooters and motorcycles.  In 90K miles of riding since the late 1980's I have never replaced a motorcycle starter or solenoid.  I got my 2005 GV 250 with 2500 miles now I have 19K - no problems with the starter.

3. Kymco Rear brake light - watch out for this.  As the scooters age 6 years + regardless of miles.  The contact on the rear brake light switch corrodes.  If you don't see your rear brake light come on when you squeeze the left brake light - the scooter will not start (verify that your rear brake light works and that the bulb is ok).  Note: the motor will crank even if the lever is not pushed or with the kick stand down but it will not start.  I took my switch apart and cleaned it and applied dielectric grease.  It works great but sometimes still acts up.  Quick temp fix is to press the lever a bunch of times.

4. Moral of the story: With 19K miles my scoot starts instantly when cold.  Below 45 degrees and in damp weather I need to hold the starter for up to 6 seconds before it starts.  In hot weather or when the motor is hot the choke does not come on and that requires throttle open ~ 1/2 way.  If after cranking for 6 seconds stop and fix the problem don't keep cranking of you risk damaging the starter or solenoid.

5. Get help from your car: Hook jumper cables and then try starting - that ensures your battery is not an issue.  If it starts right up your battery is weak and needs to be replace.  I discovered this last year - scoot haveing problmes starting.  After sitting a few days I noticed it cranked very slowly - replaced battery problem solved. 

[ifican]

Kymco Rear brake light - watch out for this.  As the scooters age 6 years + regardless of miles.  The contact on the rear brake light switch corrodes.  If you don't see your rear brake light come on when you squeeze the left brake light - the scooter will not start (verify that your rear brake light works and that the bulb is ok). 

Interesting insight. My right brake level became very intermittent with starting but the left has never been an issue. Light continues to work on both. Battery i dont think so but maybe, will have to test voltage, though it was replaced less than a year ago and i put it on the charger every few weeks. What i do find interesting though and may be part of the problem is the auto bystarter varies greatly in resistance based on when i check it. Pulled it and checked it cold and it was 50 ohms. I thought man thats kinda high i bet it doesnt work (also seems like its extended farther out then it should be cold). Hooked it to power and it slowly extended some. Pulled it from power and tested ohms and it was 15ish. Was 15 for 15 minutes or so, put it down and figured let me check it again. Back to 45, does anyone know off hand the length of the choke pin cold. This one is just about 3/4", im leaning towards this being part if not all of the issue but usually when they fail they fail closed not open or partially open. Since i have carb pulled ill pull it apart and check it out as well.

Let me also toss this out, when it eventually starts (slightly holding open throttle usually) fast idle seems to work and it otherwise runs fine. However getting it good and warm, it still wont start very well. Sometimes fires immediately, sometimes not at all just cranks...... input....?