Author Topic: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue  (Read 12779 times)

ScooterWolf

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2016, 06:48:13 PM »
I'm the last technical and mechanical person to offer advice, but since any questions and solutions are okay, it seems the heart of the problem is the cold. Is there away to insulate the 500 with covers and tarps so that it isn't effected by the cold? If you can prevent the battery or other systems from getting exposed to colder temperatures it may help it start better in colder weather.

Just a thought.

- Wolf

Stig / Major Tom

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2016, 10:42:23 PM »
Good for you Wayne!
Totally agree - got really bummed when I could not solve the poor low speed cruising of my LIKE200i.
When I take good care of my vehicle - I expect it to be reliable. NEED it to be when using it as work commuter. (Still wonder if maybe I caused the TPS to fail at low speeds by riding 4000 miles at 25mph in State parks. There is a motorcyclist who reported developing the same issue for similar reasons.)
Glad you're both happy now.
Stig
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Mr. Paul

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2016, 11:31:10 PM »
Way to go! Glad you got it sorted out.
2009 Kymco People 150
1993 Honda Helix

wkreps

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2016, 03:51:27 PM »
I'm the last technical and mechanical person to offer advice, but since any questions and solutions are okay, it seems the heart of the problem is the cold. Is there away to insulate the 500 with covers and tarps so that it isn't effected by the cold? If you can prevent the battery or other systems from getting exposed to colder temperatures it may help it start better in colder weather.

Just a thought.

- Wolf
I kept it garaged and it seems as though the cranking was enough to get it going. Very strange for sure. I'll be at ease if/when I get through next winter without issue. The thing I can't get over is, why would it start (if it was the battery) after cranking and cranking on it? Puck it! Let's enjoy riding season.
Wayne



Doc Wheezer

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2016, 07:04:12 PM »
Glad to hear you got a replacement battery and you are back on the road.
 Like I said before, you knew the answer to your problem the minute you started the bike off your wifes car ''started like it was 70degrees outside.  Logistical conclusion there must not have been enough power from just the bike's battery.
This may have already been addressed. ButI've noticed that the PREFERRED  oil for the 500 is 5w-50 as opposed to 15w40 for the 250. The other viscosities are labeled as ACCEPTABLE. Is anyone using 5w-50 in their 500? Could that small change make the difference?

Oil weight can make a BIG difference when cold cranking an engine.
Living in the far western suburbs of Chicago, I know the difference synthetic oil versus mineral oil made when I would leave for work at 3 AM in January and February after the car sat outside all night. So cold the plastic holding up the seat belt inside the car shattered when I slid across the seat from the passenger side because the drivers door lock was frozen. 
At O'Hare we would leave equipment running during the shift so it would work when we needed it.
On the days I handled GSE (ground service equipment=anything not flying) fueling my guys would keep the 5 gallon container of oil in the cab of the truck, so that the oil would pour when they needed to use it, otherwise it was like molasses.  I did a Temp Duty Assignment  IN Jackson Hole WY for two winters. I know cold weather and the effect it has on equipment, worked in it for 22  years.
Even the hydraulics had to be warmed by cycling the equipment. Most of the equipment that had to sit outside because it was too big to be parked inside, had recirculation block heaters.
I never consider blankets, heat guns/hair dryers, dipstick heaters as viable or practical options for cars or bikes.

I bet, the backorder was caused by a bad batch of batteries being shipped and now being returned.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 01:47:25 PM by Doc Wheezer »

wkreps

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2016, 05:55:45 PM »
35F when I left for work this am and it started right up. Feeling much better.  ;D
Wayne



de dee

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2016, 07:48:22 PM »

  last of the ice melted on the garage floor, so I vacumed the water up,  ( should install heater )dreaming in floor heating,.   all-so installed a power plug on my tractor ,. battery not handy to access,.  so I can plug in the battery maintainer charger,.  rigged a plug in from charger to power plug,  quick and easy!,   I like to run the motors through the winter, every 3 or 4 weeks to move the gas in the carbs,  and the charger keeps the battery healthy when it gos to 40 below, 

wkreps

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2016, 02:00:27 AM »
So guess what, it started fine for a week and then Saturday, sputter just like before. Checked battery voltage: 13.03v. Should have been plenty. It wasn't really "cold" outside. Around 40F i think, and rising. Didn't check other than it was supposed to be a high of 57F (got to 62F). Turned key 3 times and it still didn't start. Turned key 5 times and it started right up. Also started just fine throughout the day during 2 decent rides. The scoot had set for 3 days of not riding. This takes me back to what I thought it was early on, a fuel issue or a fuel pump issue. The fuel pump must be working cause it runs fine once started but I'm wondering if there is some sort of vacuum leak that may be letting the fuel line to the injectors (assuming cause I really don't know how it works) slowly drain back to the tank leaving no fuel being pumped into the injectors. Like turning the key 5 times and letting the fuel pump run it's cycle each time sort of primes the line. This make any sense?
Wayne



CROSSBOLT

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2016, 01:34:31 PM »
That really sucks, Wayne! I gotta throw in here it was something you touched when replacing the battery that is the real culprit. Like a bad connection on the terminal. Where it is crimped or soldered on to the fat cable. This could be the starting defect that seems to bother that model.

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wkreps

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2016, 03:00:18 PM »
A guy told me Saturday that he worked on one that wouldn't start (don't know if it was the same issue) and he replaced a solenoid and it was fine. Any ideas on what solenoid they would be talking about? Could a solenoid cause an intermittent issue?
Wayne



Stig / Major Tom

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2016, 06:47:37 PM »
Wayne,
I'm going to place anything I can find on this subject here....
First find: http://maxi-scoots.com/scoot/index.php?topic=708.0

And : http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=4486.0
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 06:49:24 PM by Stig »
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Mr. Paul

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2016, 12:46:56 AM »
Man I am sorry it is still a problem.  My gut says it is a problem with the temperature sensor/ecu interface. It sounds as if the computer does not know when the engine is cold starting. When it is cold the air is denser so the computer should enrich the mixture. If that is not happening then the engine is trying to crank lean.
2009 Kymco People 150
1993 Honda Helix

Stig / Major Tom

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2016, 12:18:26 PM »
Thinking the same.
Scoot needs more fuel at start when cold.
Can ECU be remapped to richen mix only at start?.
Never gets cold in Taiwan so they missed this on this big thumper.???
BUT all of these scooters not having this issue. ..maybe change out temp sensor?
Maybe this part failed.
IDK
Stig
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wkreps

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2016, 12:35:46 PM »
34F this morning and I went to the garage and it fired right up. No extra turns of the key for the fuel pump cycling. So my theory on the fuel and sitting for a few days is holding true at this point. I need to start a logbook.
Wayne



Mr. Paul

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Re: Let's brainstorm the 500's cold start issue
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2016, 08:03:45 PM »

Great! Its an intermittent problem!!! :o Still thinking the temp sensor/comp. Kymco would not have the resources to reflash the ecu and would not want to spend the money for new ones. Did you try to restrict the air flow one of the times it would not crank?
2009 Kymco People 150
1993 Honda Helix

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