BP

[axy]

its the government that has delayed any sort of recovery effort..the government keeps bullsh**ing bobby jindel...the government said "no we dont want your help" to 12 countries offering assistance.. the government was worried about who gets paid, not a clean up effort, EVEN TO THIS DAY, DAY 73!!...if we could get our OWN DAM OIL instead of from across the way, hmm that may help... oh yeah, its the government that even makes more money off of the oil than "big oil" co. i mean come on dude, wake up.. socialism is knocking at your door/beating it down!!!!

I think you are mixing up socialism with communism. Those two terms are not synonyms, yet they are usually used in the same sense.

You'd be lucky to live in a country that has well developed social network governed by the principles of socialism (for example, Scandinavian countries, Austria, France, Germany) because you would enjoy high standard of free-for-all healthcare, education, state pension system, direct participation in representation etc.

For example, student credit was unheard of in my country until recently. I have received my B.Sc. without paying a cent (yet, you had to have good grades). Now, they are introducing payments for education on all levels after high school, just like in USA...

Do not forget that a few months ago a health-bill was passed by Obama touted as a big thing, while some countries most people could not point on a map have had state medical care for all for the past 60 years, my country included. Stories about most developed and influential country in the world not having medical care free for everybody sounds barbaric to most of us from "small" countries overseas, but it is a reality, and a consequence of neoliberal framework. The paradox is that with recent crisis and lack of funds, those countries have started approaching ex. US neoliberal model, while US is privatizing banks to save national economy and introducing social measures!

So, remember, "socialism" or at least, capitalism with strong social network and human rights is quite positive thing and most advanced system of democracy we know while neoliberal paradigm usually ends up in bloodshed and redistribution of capital and money from poor to rich (case studies: Chicago school, Chicago boys, monetarism, Milton Friedman, Chile, Bolivia, Australia, South Africa, ex. USSR in 90s, Poland, Iraq, Afghanistan, N.O. after Catrina and Asia after tsunami...)

[thebatman]

duuude, i dont know where you are but socialism is rampant these days..you have to have socialism before you have communism.. capitolism, free market society made the usa great..the progressives look up to people like chavez.. socialism has never been good, every country that is goes broke, is broke.now everybody has their hand out, saying gimme, gimme..oh people are dying with this healthcare that YOU seem to enjoy..you my friend have been brainwashed..guess you love countries such as cuba, venezuala, france,  england, germany.(hitler is here now)..yes i know a few are communist..we need capitolism, free will...who the f*** wants the government telling me when i can sh**, what store i can go to, taking my guns, what the hell is wrong here, its called freedom and libertys that your heroes are taking from us here one by one.. did you know the 2nd admenment only is alive by one dam vote yesterday...5 - 4...bullsh**..i prefer freedom to your socialistic agenda

[jprestonian]

Oh, for Christ's sake.
.

[wordslinger]

..the problem in the gulf has nothing to do with any "ism"....

...just a too big company thinking the rules don't apply to them...

[zombie]

MMMmmmmmm Gulfism~   What happened?

[thebatman]

oh for christ sakes.....heil hitler!!!!!!!!.... anyhow, the government is the ones BLOCKING BPs efforts, BLOCKING THE PEOPLEs efforts to clean it up themselves....yes they may be sone fault on bp, BUT the federal governments NOT LETTING THEM!!!..get chris mattews out of thine but and look at the dam transformation of THE ONCE FREE AMERICA..guess everybody thinks they should only have wind power now, oh i know, maybe we could make our own bee gas.....ROFLMMFAO!!... wake up

[axy]

duuude, i dont know where you are but socialism is rampant these days..you have to have socialism before you have communism.. capitolism, free market society made the usa great..the progressives look up to people like chavez.. socialism has never been good, every country that is goes broke, is broke.now everybody has their hand out, saying gimme, gimme..oh people are dying with this healthcare that YOU seem to enjoy..you my friend have been brainwashed..guess you love countries such as cuba, venezuala, france,  england, germany.(hitler is here now)..yes i know a few are communist..we need capitolism, free will...who the f*** wants the government telling me when i can sh**, what store i can go to, taking my guns, what the hell is wrong here, its called freedom and libertys that your heroes are taking from us here one by one.. did you know the 2nd admenment only is alive by one dam vote yesterday...5 - 4...bullsh**..i prefer freedom to your socialistic agenda

I suggest to read a bit on the topic:

1. Milton Friedman, "Capitalism and freedom" - he pretty much agrees with you
2. Naomi Klein "The shock doctrine" - she pretty much disagrees with Friedman and you
3. ... and finally, read what Mr. Lyndon LaRouche thinks about neoliberal paradigm in "The ugly truth about Milton Friedman".

You might be surprised to find out that Mr. Friedman is actually in his freedom-in-everything approach taking Mr. Hjalmar Schacht, Third Reich's Finance minister as a role model in his theories. Neoliberal doctrine you are preaching is in fact, and surprisingly, tightly connected with paradigm of fascism. I watched quite a number of documentaries on that topic and realize that except late Mr. Charlton Heston, most militant supporters of "extreme freedom" usually live in rural US of A, their mother is usually also their wife, wear checkered red-black T-Shirt and stock up cellar for second coming/war against "lefties", whichever comes first.  

Regarding US of A, it has never been "free economy", you are being preached the wrong fairytale your whole life. Too much freedom, and you have recession and economic disasters due to inherent inclination of human beings to maximize their own profit at the expense of others. New institutional economy is dealing quite in details with this phenomenon and several prominent US economists have recently received Nobel prize for economy in this area.

The first case when US government has stepped in was at the beginning of the century when in 1911 US Supreme Court ordered Standard Oil to be divided to 34 different oil companies with different boards of directors in order to stop monopoly on the market.

Furthermore, read the Declaration of independence where it says that nobody will have to pay taxes to the government *and* the only legal tender is gold, and central bank (FED in your case) will not issue paper notes.

Ever heard about US dollar? How come it is legal tender when Declaration of independence explicitly forbids it to be issued?

The last example of need for state intervention was TARP and bailout program for banks and insurance companies that went bankrupt in USA due to worthless housing derivatives that almost destroyed global financial system - direct consequence of too much misguided "freedom".

Finally, market exists even in socialist countries (not that many exist today), it is not inherent characteristics of capitalism.

I might go on and on about false myth of freedom, but I doubt you'd be able to understand any of the arguments due to poor level of information accessible to you.
It is even more sad that you do not want to accept that "communism" and "socialism" are not equal terms. For example, fascism and nacism are both socialist regimes yet they have nothing to do with socialist states of Sweden or Austria today.

Capitalism is not opposite term to socialism. Nazi Germany, fascist Japan and fascist Italy were all socialist and capitalist societies.

Most things you are so concerned about are not even on 25th page of newspapers in countries around the world. For example, the right to have arms. If I wanted to have a pistol or a gun, I go to police station, ask for permit and if I am not a psychopath or ex. convict, I will get it without problems. If I am a member of a hunting club, I can get a rifle.

There is a limit to this, I cannot get a machine gun, RPG or chain gun even if I wanted to. I do not know who in their right mind would need any of these (except the guys I described above ).

Furthermore, it is a strange position for me to debate US economic and political system and history, considering the fact I have never been there and live across the ocean.

[axy]

..the problem in the gulf has nothing to do with any "ism"....

...just a too big company thinking the rules don't apply to them...

I second and underline your opinion!

It is simply a gross negligence and mismanagement (especially in terms of risk management) by the oil multinational company.

This is very prevalent these days because almost all oil construction projects are fast track and everything revolves around bigger profit margins.

[wordslinger]

...It is simply a gross negligence and mismanagement (especially in terms of risk management) by the oil multinational company.

..it's as simple as that....

[thebatman]

dude, i never said socialism/comunism were one in the same..they are different, but countries normally go socialist RIGHT BEFORE communism...if you have only experianced socialistic regimes how in the hell do you know what freedom is?  big government sux, has always aucked...never works out, everything the federal government touches turns to straight sh**.. WE were free untill this regime came to power. who in their right mind LIKES the federal gov telling them what, when, where???.. i like the fact we dont have curfews, can have a gun, can look at other women, like driving big trucks, can go anywhere, simple sh** people take for granted. you even have eyes on your computer(we do now) watching you.. thats what responsibility means, take care of yourself, dont have hands out saying i want mine. yes money was gold, the federal government is the one that issues currency, THEY changed it, not the people, hence the i.m.f..you have a good talk game but you have always been a socialist in a socialist co., not a free

[thebatman]

i guess thats why people from other countries COME HERE to live, to get medical treatment, to be free cause they have soooo much there in a socialistic country or a communistic country..

[axy]

dude, i never said socialism/comunism were one in the same..they are different, but countries normally go socialist RIGHT BEFORE communism...if you have only experianced socialistic regimes how in the hell do you know what freedom is?  big government sux, has always aucked...never works out, everything the federal government touches turns to straight sh**.. WE were free untill this regime came to power. who in their right mind LIKES the federal gov telling them what, when, where???.. i like the fact we dont have curfews, can have a gun, can look at other women, like driving big trucks, can go anywhere, simple sh** people take for granted. you even have eyes on your computer(we do now) watching you.. thats what responsibility means, take care of yourself, dont have hands out saying i want mine. yes money was gold, the federal government is the one that issues currency, THEY changed it, not the people, hence the i.m.f..you have a good talk game but you have always been a socialist in a socialist co., not a free

There has never, in the history of mankind, existed a COMMUNIST state.

I assure you you have never experienced "free market", because it has NEVER existed, and especially not in US of A. The examples of "free market" were in practice created in the following countries: Chile, Bolivia, South Africa, ex. USSR and Poland (after 1990), and ended up after a few years with hyperinflation, military government, martial law, new elections, and return to previous economic model.

Ask citizens of New Orleans what they think about "free market" schooling and housing model exercised on them after Katrina.

I am afraid you have close minded and opinionated view of the world outside your own country. I do not know a country in Europe that has curfews, forbids personal weapons, loooking at other women, driving big trucks and going anywhere. I know very few countries in the world that have any of these.

You would probably be surprised that I can travel from my country to the Atlantic ocean even WITHOUT passport, just by showing my ID card at the nearest border (no borders after that, similar to US states).

[axy]

i guess thats why people from other countries COME HERE to live, to get medical treatment, to be free cause they have soooo much there in a socialistic country or a communistic country..

Take a look at this movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386032/

It will show you the standard of medical care in Cuba compared to the one in USA.

It is quite easy to get medical care if you can pay for it, but it takes a well organized society to provide it to those less fortunate.



I am afraid you cannot even comprehend that, God forbid, if I need a heart surgery or organ transplant, I will get it FREE OF CHARGE.
Yet, you might be suprised if I tell you that we pay 15 % of our gross salary for medical care. It is mandatory.
Further 15 % for pensions of those currently retired and at least 5 % for my own pension fund.
And income tax 12-45 % on the remainder.

The world is not the yard of your house, it is much bigger.
The world is not USA - USA is just important few % of world population.

[thebatman]

oh my, great conversation/debate..thanks....so you pay over 50% to the government...hmmm?(your money) well thats fair.. excuse me but, cuba, venezuala, north korea, russia, parts of china/japan are communist countries. france, england, germany,etc are socialist co.. oh well, i too can go to the atl ocean AND I DONT HAVE TO SHOW AN ID.. i used to have a closed mind, my eyes have been opened.. a free market society DOES NOT MEAN MARTIAL LAW..it means if i have the means or will to do it, that i can w/o retribution for bettering myself. yeah, your country sooooo great, but WE HAVE WELL OVER 10 BILLION ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT WANT TO COME HERE FOR FREEDOM, THE CHANCE TO DO BETTER, BETTER HEALTHCARE(for now)..if you actually believe you would get that operation then YOU are closed minded.. you will be let to die instead(cost would be to high)..(its even in the dam bill they past here)..

[axy]

oh my, great conversation/debate..thanks....so you pay over 50% to the government...hmmm?(your money) well thats fair.. excuse me but, cuba, venezuala, north korea, russia, parts of china/japan are communist countries. france, england, germany,etc are socialist co.. oh well, i too can go to the atl ocean AND I DONT HAVE TO SHOW AN ID.. i used to have a closed mind, my eyes have been opened.. a free market society DOES NOT MEAN MARTIAL LAW..it means if i have the means or will to do it, that i can w/o retribution for bettering myself. yeah, your country sooooo great, but WE HAVE WELL OVER 10 BILLION ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT WANT TO COME HERE FOR FREEDOM, THE CHANCE TO DO BETTER, BETTER HEALTHCARE(for now)..if you actually believe you would get that operation then YOU are closed minded.. you will be let to die instead(cost would be to high)..(its even in the dam bill they past here)..

Parts of China and Japan? Part of the country can have one social and economic setting while other part can have another?
I wonder what is with these other imaginary parts of China and Japan, what is their social and economic setting then?

I understand that you cannot grasp concept of free medical care for everybody, because, in all of your freedom, you have never experienced a social care network.

I guess that you also cannot understand why it is quite usual, for me, for example, to have at least five weeks of vacation days per year, or why sacked employee in Germany will receive 70 % of his average salary for the next 12 months from the state. Or that a woman after giving birth will be paid for one year to stay with the child and she can stay at home until the child is 3 y.o. and still keep the job.

p.s. USA does not have 10 billion illegal immigrants. Whole world does not have 10 billion inhabitants. World population is around 6.9 billion, USA has 0.3 billion people.
I wonder about your knowledge *before* your eyes were open.

p.p.s. You do not need anything to get to the Atlantic ocean because on both sides it is the same country. I do not need anything except ID card to cross several borders and states. Try to go to Europe, Mexico or Canada without passport and let me know the result. Where is your freedom now?