Author Topic: Downtown Tires???  (Read 17493 times)

Jalmar

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2017, 01:58:26 PM »
The pressure level on the tire sidewall indicates its MAX pressure when cold.

It is not its recommended tire pressure.

The pressure level on the tire sidewall indicates what pressure you must have in the tire to get max load capacity. Metzler Feel Free rear tire can have a max load of 280 kg at a tire pressure of 38 psi (cold)if I remember correctly. So the pressure indicated at the tire sidewall isn't max pressure the tire can have, but the pressure it must have to deal with max load capacity.


Jalmar

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2017, 02:12:57 PM »
This is great.  I am going to copy and paste this for my records.  I  recently had that back tire put on and yesterday I thought gosh I should check the pressure that they put into this tire.  It was only at about 23psi! Geeez!  I put it up to what the book said 32psi but on the tire itself it say's 40psi.

With 23 psi you would soon have a worn tire. Think about all the people that trust the shops and don't see for themselves.

I would have put in 38 psi in your tire, but that's me  ;D  If you usually drive alone with not much luggage, maybe try 36 psi. That should give you some more km on the tire.  :)

kneeslider

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2017, 03:47:15 PM »
The load capacity is the maximum weight a tyre can safely carry.
It has no relation to the max psi indicator.
2019 Yamaha X-Max 250

kneeslider

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2017, 04:08:57 PM »
Here is a link for further reading.

http://www.dunlopmotorcycletires.com/care/
2019 Yamaha X-Max 250

Jalmar

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2017, 04:49:51 PM »
The load capacity is the maximum weight a tyre can safely carry.
It has no relation to the max psi indicator.

We don't have a max psi indicator on european tires. I would be very interested to see one if you could please take a photo?

So you say that the tire pressure don't have any relation to the maximum weight a tyre can safely carry?

Here is a picture of what I am talking about (sorry for the bad quality):



As we see, in this case a Metzler Feel Free, this tire can carry 280 kg (617 LBS) at 260 kpa (38 psi). And that is what Metzler can guarantee. It can't carry 280 kg if you have 10 psi in it.

So this has nothing to do with max tire pressure the tire can have. Maybe tires sold in the US has other text on the tire? I'm very interested in the max psi indicator, if there is printed on the tire.


Jalmar

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2017, 05:03:25 PM »
Here is a link for further reading.

http://www.dunlopmotorcycletires.com/care/

Thank you. That link showes just what I am talking about  :)

 It says clearly:  Maximum loads and the corresponding pressures are indicated on the sidewall of all Dunlop street tires.

And Dunlop says the same thing that I say when it comes to pressure: Keep in mind that hard cornering, passengers, heavy loads and sustained high speeds will require higher pressures (up to that indicated on the sidewall).


Nireen

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2017, 06:33:53 PM »
Work it out boy's, work it out :D Thanks everyone!! Helpful to Kat here. Now I go within, sleep on it and I will be guided for sure! Happens all the time.
Kat :)

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2017, 07:39:25 PM »
Kneeslider, please check items 3 and 8 of your link.

Karl
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

Stig / Major Tom

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2017, 11:15:07 PM »
Work it out boy's, work it out :D Thanks everyone!! Helpful to Kat here. Now I go within, sleep on it and I will be guided for sure! Happens all the time.
Kat, please continue to follow owner's booklet PSI specifications for single and double riding when inflating your tires.
Also, follow the maximum permissable load carrying WEIGHT which your scooter (frame welds, brakes, axles, steering head bearings, etc.) was designed to handle. That figure will never be above your tire limits.

So, check booklet that came under the seat for: tire PSI, load carrying capacity....that is all you need to know....and maybe stop paying so much for tires!.
You do that -- you'll be safe, scooter will be safe, tires will be safe.
Also, ever'dang bike tire is flat in the middle -- just means you're riding not to impress. Does not mean it is necessarily  deadly...if there are some tread sipes remaining for water dispersal.
However, do change 'em if you're doing 75mph in monsoon rains.
It is your $$.
3 tire already, seems too much.
Stig
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 11:21:42 PM by Stig »
Boston Strong
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CROSSBOLT

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2017, 11:35:49 PM »
What Stig said!

Karl
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

Nireen

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2017, 08:03:18 AM »
Kat, please continue to follow owner's booklet PSI specifications for single and double riding when inflating your tires.
Also, follow the maximum permissable load carrying WEIGHT which your scooter (frame welds, brakes, axles, steering head bearings, etc.) was designed to handle. That figure will never be above your tire limits.


Than why the heck do I have to get new tires so often!  12000 km's and on my third back tire!??? :(
So, check booklet that came under the seat for: tire PSI, load carrying capacity....that is all you need to know....and maybe stop paying so much for tires!.
You do that -- you'll be safe, scooter will be safe, tires will be safe.
Also, ever'dang bike tire is flat in the middle -- just means you're riding not to impress. Does not mean it is necessarily  deadly...if there are some tread sipes remaining for water dispersal.
However, do change 'em if you're doing 75mph in monsoon rains.
It is your $$.
3 tire already, seems too much.
Stig
Kat :)

Stig / Major Tom

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2017, 11:00:21 AM »
Well, maybe 4000 miles out of a rear tire on a Downtown is about average.
What do other DT owners report for mileage and best brand of tire?
Some Burgman 400 riders are only going 5000 miles on a rear tire.
I'm at nearly 6000 miles on my Burg400, and nowhere near worn out.

Riding styles differ, i guess.
Stig
Boston Strong
Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

kneeslider

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2017, 12:41:36 PM »
Karl,

See below the two topics as you mentioned.
I still stand by my understanding that there is a max psi and max load to adhere to.

3 - Load-Carrying CapabilitiesTOP
Tires offering different load-carrying capacities are available. Consider carefully the weight of the motorcycle, whether it will carry passengers and the weight of any optional equipment. Remember, the load-carrying capability of the tires is also reduced by underinflation. It is possible to overload a tire even though it is the size specified by the motorcycle manufacturer. Maximum loads and the corresponding pressures are indicated on the sidewall of all Dunlop street tires.

Before riding, the motorcyclist must determine the total weight of luggage, equipment and rider(s) to be added to the motorcycle. Instruct your customers that the total weight of luggage, equipment and rider(s) must never exceed the vehicle load capacity found in the motorcycle owner’s manual.

Instruct your customers not to pull a trailer behind their motorcycle. Trailers may contribute to motorcycle instability, grossly exaggerated tire stresses and overload. Such stresses and overload can cause irreversible damage resulting in sudden tire failure, accident, injury or death. Dunlop does not warrant tires used on motorcycles fitted with trailers.

Sidecars should not be fitted unless approved by the motorcycle manufacturer

8 - Tire Pressures (see also Tire Mounting)TOP
Follow pressure recommendations shown on the Dunlop Motorcycle Tire Application Guide. Contact Dunlop if year and model are not shown on the current guide and the owner’s manual does not list pressure settings for Dunlop tires.

Keep in mind that hard cornering, passengers, heavy loads and sustained high speeds will require higher pressures (up to that indicated on the sidewall).

CHECKING TIRE PRESSURE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TIRE MAINTENANCE FUNCTION YOU AND YOUR CUSTOMER CAN PERFORM.

For high-speed, fully loaded or dual-riding touring-motorcycle applications, inflate tires to maximum recommended by vehicle manufacturer for Dunlop fitment. Never exceed maximum load indicated on tire sidewall or vehicle capacity load found in owner’s manual, whichever is lower.

Underinflated tires can result in imprecise cornering, higher running temperatures, irregular tread wear, fatigue cracking, overstressing and eventual failure of the tire carcass, or loss of control, which could cause accident, injury or death.

Overinflating tires does not increase load-carrying capacity, but will result in a hard ride and accelerated tire wear in the center of the contact patch.

Advise your customers to check cold tire pressure frequently with a good-quality gauge that holds a reading, and always before extended trips.

Loss of pressure may occur due to worn-out or badly seated valve cores. Check valve cores, and if necessary, tighten for correct seating, or remove and replace them. A metal or hard-plastic valve cap with an inner gasket should be used and installed finger-tight to protect the valve core from dust and moisture and to help maintain a positive air seal.

Loss of pressure may also be caused by tube damage, as well as cracked rubber tube or tubeless valve stem bases. Inspect rim bands, tubes and valves. Replace if damage or cracking is noted.

Repeated loss of inflation pressure may result from undetected tire damage. Visually inspect tires for punctures, cuts, abrasions, cracks, bulges, blisters or knots. It will be necessary to dismount the tire to complete an inspection for internal damage and any need for repair. See the Tire Repair section. Only certain punctures in the tread area may be repaired, and only if no other damage is present.

The appearance of stress cracks in the tread grooves is one indicator of overload and/or underinflation. If you find evidence of tread-groove cracking, you should remove and replace the tire immediately. This damage is permanent and non-repairable.

Tires with non-repairable damage must not be used again (see Tire Repair). Damage caused by impacts, penetrations or continued underinflated/overloaded use is progressive and can result in sudden and complete tire failure and accident, injury or death.

Your customers should always seek expert inspection of the dismounted tire following curb, chuckhole or other impacts, evidence of penetration beyond the tire surface, bulges or low pressure. They should not continue riding on such tires.

Advise your customers to inspect their tires frequently for damage and to always heed warning signs such as vibration, handling instability, rubbing or tire noise that occurs during operation of the motorcycle.

Kneeslider, please check items 3 and 8 of your link.

Karl
2019 Yamaha X-Max 250

Jalmar

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2017, 01:36:55 PM »
Max load is stated at a specific pressure. You can't expect the tire to deal with the stated weight if you have lower pressure. And you can't (safely) expect the tire to carry more weight by adding more pressure. But this do not state the maximum pressure the tire can stand.

But that's beside the point here. No one has suggested to go over the tires weightlimit or the stated pressure. My suggestion was to try higher pressure, up to the pressure stated on the tire wall. That's a free test to see if you get more milage before the middle of the tire is worn out. That's an old metod to get more milage out of motor bike tires.

Another interesting thing here is the weight limit on the bike itself. Have you calculated that on your bikes? Are you sure that you follow the limits? Because if you are over the limits on the rear tire, you can't use the pressure the producer of the scooter says. You have to do what Dunlop and other tire manufacturer say. You have to put on a tire that can carry the weight and use the pressure stated on the tire wall...

Do the math on your scooters and let us see  :)

I have done it on my scooter, and I can't legally drive it with a passenger that weigh more than 38 kg.The max load on the rear axel on my scooter in Norway is 231 kg. The scooter itself weights 123 kg on the rear axel. That gives me 108 kg left. I weigh 98 kg with all gear on. I sit in front of the rear axel, so some of that weight is transfered to the front wheel. Lets say that the rear wheel carry 70 kg. That gives me 38 kg left that I legally can load on the rear wheel. What if my passenger, that sits right over the rear wheel, weigh 70 kg? And myabe I have 20 kg luggage also? Well, then I have 283 kg total on the rear wheel.

This has nothing to do with Nireens problem, but it has everything to do with correct pressure. Most of us carry more weight than what is legal when we ride with passenger. And then we have to use the pressure that stated on the tire.


ole two wheels

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Re: Downtown Tires???
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2017, 04:09:22 PM »
Kneeslider is absolutely correct. What's on the sidewall is the max pressure the tire can be safely inflated to. The vehicle's manufacturer's recommendation is a compromise, taking into account weight loading, ride comfort, grip and the speed rating on the tire. You should always go with the recommended pressure and not what is on the sidewall.
Mac 

2012 Kymco DT300
1996 Honda Shadow Spirit 1100

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