Author Topic: Starting issues with a Yager 200i  (Read 4377 times)

eakins

  • Butler Motorcycle Maps
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« on: August 24, 2016, 05:50:17 PM »
posted in the Yager section but thought I open this up to all Kymco gurus.

Backstory:

Bought a 2010 Yager 200i with 900 miles on a few weeks ago. Clean and no rust.

Shop stated previous owner traded it because it was having battery problems. Added a Battery Tender lead to charge every night or would not start in the am.

When I picked up shop installed a new traditional Interstate battery.

This battery lasted about 6 days then would not start so I started using my Battery Tender Jr.

Replaced it with a Scorpion YT12a-bs (175cca)

After a week same starting problem again so back to using Tender.

I cleaned (wire brush) & di-electric greased frame ground plus connections at the starting relay/solenoid assy. All connection were tight from factory.

When the motor runs it’s strong with no issues or misses. Have run several tanks of gas in it. Changed oil, new spark plug, clean air filter.

With a fresh charged battery it starts fast and idles well. Starts every time however with my Lithium battery jumper box.

Findings:

-battery holds 12.5v when sitting for days (disconnected)
-scooter charges at 13.9-14v consistently at idle & speed
-on a 10amp scale, the negative wire & negative battery post draws 0.01 key off
-on a 10amp scale, the negative wire & negative battery post draws 5.4 amps key on. Normal?
-continuity is 0 on the negative battery side to all frame points and engine
-continuity is 0 from positive battery to starter relay battery side
-no continuity across the starter relay when off
-continuity is 0 from the starter side of the relay to where the positive attaches to the starter
PLUS is 0 to all ground points on frame/engine. No voltage just continuity. Is this normal to have continuity across the positive to the negative thru the starter?

Observation:

ok here are things i tested in this order.
battery fully charged overnight.

cold engine

key off - .01 amp draw between neg battery & ground. no parasitic drain.
key on - 5.40 amp draw. normal range?

key off - 12.8v
key on - holds steady at 11.9v for well over a minute (no drop)

engine starts like a champ & runs well.

13.9v while running

turn engine off for 1 minute

key off - 12.5v
key on - voltage drops quickly to bellow 11 in less than 30 sec

will not start now.

recharged battery fully to test voltage drop when starting at 2 points

pos & neg battery terminal: +/- 10.6v 
pos & neg at starter terminal: +/- 8.6v
so i'm seeing a approx 2v difference down at the starter

Conclusion:

so I get 1 good start, then something happens?

heading now to parts store to test load ability of this battery.
normally I would say this is a bad battery, but it's the 3rd in a row so something is causing batteries to fail?

Where should I go here to determine what is causing this battery/heavy drain issue?

Buying yet another battery does not should like the solution.

 I love this scooter and don’t want to trade it in on something else, but it’s far from no surprises right now.

thanks  :D
Bill



CROSSBOLT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7763
  • West Tennessee, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2016, 06:29:16 PM »
Dropping two volts through the cable to the starter is not good. Terminals got the best treatment but the lug-to-wire may be bad on either + or - cable or both. and you may have a battery issue as well. How'd the battery test go?

Karl

PS: I had a Yager before the DT300i and had to be coerced to change!
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

nushipwright

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
    • View Profile
Re: Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2016, 07:36:51 PM »
Quote
-on a 10amp scale, the negative wire & negative battery post draws 5.4 amps key on.

Is this a continuous current draw or only present while the fuel pump runs for a few seconds when you turn the ignition key to on position?
If this current draw is continuous with the ignition key on, then that's what causes your battery to collapse after a short while.
That's over 60W of power drain. Which also has to create considerable amount of heat somewhere.

I am trying to help. Please keep posting your findings.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 07:46:49 PM by nushipwright »
“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”  - Mark Twain
. mostly 2up city

eakins

  • Butler Motorcycle Maps
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2016, 08:28:35 PM »
Is this a continuous current draw or only present while the fuel pump runs for a few seconds when you turn the ignition key to on position?
If this current draw is continuous with the ignition key on, then that's what causes your battery to collapse after a short while.
That's over 60W of power drain. Which also has to create considerable amount of heat somewhere.

I am trying to help. Please keep posting your findings.

well the lights (front traditional, rear led) come on too when the key is turned on so isn't that the draw?
the low bean is 55w alone. the rear led bulb is not much.

unlike other machines where the light comes on after it starts, this one has lights with the key on.

i can disconnect the headlamp and see what the draw is.

eakins

  • Butler Motorcycle Maps
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2016, 08:29:11 PM »
took battery to auto shop

well the battery is fully charged, but only 90% and did test bad.

taking the previous battery back to parts store and see how that test.
found out the previous owner replaced the factory battery too before he traded (got sick of this problem?) it in.

so in 1000 miles this engine has gone thru 4 batteries. 2 in the last 2 months while I owned it.

i can't be believe that it was 4 bad batteries in a row.
something is killing these batteries.

where next?

eakins

  • Butler Motorcycle Maps
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2016, 11:59:10 PM »
think I found a/the problem.

started digging into the alternator charging coil, ignition pulse sensor & reg/rec

-alternator charging coil (yellow wires from motor) all in spec (.05 ohm & no ground continuity) - good
-Ignition pulse sensor (from motor) 101.5 ohm (spec 106 ohm) - close enough?
-reg/rec yellow wires (connects to charging coil yellow) no ohms (spec is .04-.06) - problem!

so the reg/rec seems bad (no ohms on the yellow wires) but I was still getting 14v charging to the battery? does this seem right? the 14v was steady no matter the rpm from idle to high rpm. thought this was odd as I was expecting it to be lower at idle.


eakins

  • Butler Motorcycle Maps
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 12:17:48 AM by eakins »

nushipwright

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
    • View Profile
Re: Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2016, 05:28:56 AM »
Don't rush with the regulator. You have said before your battery voltage rises to 14V when the engine is on idle. That means your regulator is doing its job and charging your battery. However, the 14V is a tad low and is probably the result of the headlights being on. At idle your generator can't produce much juice and your headlamps drain the battery faster than the what your generator replenishes.

Your headlights were my suspect but didn't want to jump the gun yesterday. They should be off by default, no?. Don't you have a separate switch to turn them on/off and another one to switch between high and low beam?
What kind of DVM/meter are using to measure resistances? Most off the shelf ones would struggle at measuring such low resistances we're talking about here. 0.05 Ohms.

I would go around and inspect light switches/wiring harnesses, and continue from there.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 05:39:13 AM by nushipwright »
“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”  - Mark Twain
. mostly 2up city

eakins

  • Butler Motorcycle Maps
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2016, 09:23:23 PM »
gone thru the manual per section with updated results

CURRENT LEAKAGE TEST
Specified current leakage: 5 mA max.
-on 10 amp scale screen shows .01 with key off & 5 with key on

eakins

  • Butler Motorcycle Maps
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2016, 09:24:13 PM »
ALTERNATOR CHARGING COIL
(also called stator?)
yellow wires from engine?

Standard: 0.4-0.6 Ω (20ºC/68ºF)

-mine measures .5 on 200 scale

Check for continuity between each Yellow
wire terminal of the alternator side connector
and ground.
There should be no continuity.

- none found

eakins

  • Butler Motorcycle Maps
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2016, 09:24:50 PM »
REGULATOR/RECTIFIER

Battery line
Measure the voltage between the Red/White
wire terminal and ground.
There should be battery voltage at all times.
- yes there is 12.5 v at this connection where it feeds into wiring harness

Ground line
Check the continuity between the Green wire
terminal and ground.
There should be continuity at all times.
-yes on the wiring harness the green has continuity to all grounds

Charging coil line
Measure the resistance between each Yellow
wire terminals.
Standard: 0.4-0.6 Ω (20ºC/68ºF)
-nothing reads on tester.
-I assume this is on the reg/rec side of the wiring since it in this section???
-this is confusing me because we did a different a diode test here on these yellow wires to the r/r.
on the engine/stator of the yellow wires it does produce .5 ohms
-is this a manual error?

it then says this:
Disconnect the regulator/rectifier connector.
Check for continuity between each Yellow
wire terminal regulator/rectifier side and
ground.
There should be no continuity.
- it's like it should have been coonected before to test but that is impossible.,
-no continuity found

eakins

  • Butler Motorcycle Maps
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2016, 09:25:27 PM »
Update regular recifier test with better tester


-Neg lead on pos R/R & pos to all 3 yellows produce 560 diode test.

-Pos lead to neg on R/R & neg to all 3 yellows also produces 560 diode.

-neg lead to neg R/R & pos lead to yellow equals no reading
-same with pos lead to pos

So is this a good R/R?

eakins

  • Butler Motorcycle Maps
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2016, 09:25:57 PM »
IGNITION PULSE GENERATOR
INSPECTION

-this is the other connector coming from the stator

Measure the ignition pulse generator
resistance between the Green/White wire and
Blue/Yellow wire.

Standard:
DINK 200i: 16.4Ω (20ºC/68ºF)
DINK 125: 106Ω (20ºC/68ºF)

i Have a FI 200i. the 125 is a carb.

-i'm getting 101ohms so it's it way out of range & bad or the manual has the two switched.

is this my issue of a dying batteries?

eakins

  • Butler Motorcycle Maps
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Starting issues with a Yager 200i
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2016, 09:26:29 PM »
SPECIFICATIONS
Item Standard
DINK 200i 12V10AH
Capacity

Voltage Fully charged 13-13.2V
(20℃) Undercharged 12.3V

DINK 200i STD: 1A Quick: 5A
Charging current

Battery
Charging time STD: 5-10hr Quick: 60min

A.C. Generator 168W/5000rpm
Charging coil resistance (20℃) Yellow~Yellow 0.4~0.6Ω

Regulator/Rectifier Limit voltage 14.5±0.5V

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function split()