Auto shops vs Scooter shops

[Stig / Major Tom]

I have only had a scooter in the shop for servicing a few times - but have never had the smiling tech with the clip-board approach me in the waiting room with a list of faults he has discovered on my scooter.

However, recently with my xB :
Last week, while getting an oil change at my Scion dealer - the smiling service tech. approached me with his clip-board and quietly, and seriously,informed me that, although they had found my Scion to be in top shape from end-to-end, the cabin airfilter was due for replacement ....and most worryingly - he also found a tiny split in my rear window wiper blade.
I thanked him for saving my life & the lives of my family - and assured him I would remedy these issues with a stop at AutoZone on the way home. He stopped smiling.

Yesterday I decided, for the 1st time,  to give some business to a local tire store. They match prices and had the Michelins I was looking for. At the counter they informed me that I should wait to pay until after they have installed the tires - and that I would receive 3 or 4 free oil changes and free life-time tire rotations with this purchase.

1.5 hrs later the smiling auto tech. with the clip-board approached me.
I was ready for him - because I had watched every single customer in the waiting room receive the same smiling techs. with the clip-boards treatment. Some were there for their free oil changes, one guy just had a nail in the tire of his new Buick.
ALL of them were targets of the smiling clip-board techs. who had found numerous issues with their cars - well beyond what they had come in for.

I had wondered about the free oil changes and free rotations - and yet they still could match prices with the tires-only discount shops. ??

I laughed out loud when the elderly lady near me declined to follow the tech. with the clip-board to his office for a private chat about her Honda. She was there for her oil change - and loudly said, is "whatever you found going to blow up on my way home? OK, then - I'm getting rid of it in 6 mos., so just change the oil!"
That old rascal had been here before !!

I really, really hate going to auto dealers and service shops. I have always relied on friends, or friends of friends who are mechanics to service my cars.

Next time I'll drive 40 miles to the tires-only shops in Dayton.
Both places were clean, bright and had smiling counter workers - but this last group actually made me sick to my stomach.
Stig

[CROSSBOLT]

Just like the MD's who always want regular "check-ups" and "tests" s they can find something to throw a pill at which gives them commission (incentive pay, kick-back).

Karl

[ScooterLar]

The sales tactic is called "upselling". Service writers are given monetary incentives for selling services and parts over and above what the car is actually there for. Quicky lube places are also notorious for this shady practice of selling unnecessary services. Sometimes the services that they recommend are actually important like a worn out serpentine belt, but most of the time, it's just another quick money making opportunity for the dealer. 

[TroutBum]

Reminds me of the time my mom put her faith in quick change oil place. They told her the emergency brake needed adjusting. She agreed to the service. Three hours and a dash that was removed and unable to be reinstalled later I was called. I showed up and ripped the shop manager a new one.  Then I told them we are taking the car to the dealer and that they will pay for whatever it cost to put mom's car back together. I also informed them the oil change was free of charge. Two days later mom's car was good to go and it didn't cost her a dime.

[Forbes1964]

As one who formerly worked with my Father at his own auto repair shop and one who ran it for a few years after he retired, I have a unique perspective on this issue. We had the reputation among our customers as the only honest repair shop in town. (I hope we weren't the only one). I now have worked at three dealerships. We techs get paid flat rate only. The service writers get paid a small salary plus a percentage of sales. We are encouraged to inspect the vehicles and upsell when we See other needed repairs. Some of us upsell only what's needed. Others upsell what pays well. Some will attempt an upsell even when they haven't addressed the primary concern.

Example: brakes are easy money. So they get up sold often. So do maintenance items like fluid changes and fuel filters . So they'll get recommended in a heartbeat.

But that worn control arm may be difficult and take more time that it pays, so it might not get recommended even if it's really needed.
If I see a car with multiple issues, I usually prioritize . I'll tell the service writer what's needed NOW, what's needed SOON, what's a good idea to do because we're already next to it with the current repair, and what services are recommended simply by time or mileage.
It's interesting to tell a service writer that the car may need brakes in a few months only to hear him tell the customer that the brakes are SHOT.

It's sometimes discouraging to see the dishonest tech make twice as much as me one week because he sold a lot of unneeded "gravy" . But I can look at myself in the mirror the next day.

[Forbes1964]

We've also been ripped a new one by a customer when we did NOT recognize and attempt to upsell a repair, and the car subsequently broke down. "Why didn't you tell me I needed brakes when I brought it here last month? (Because you were in a big hurry, were pacing the floor, and only brought it in for a burned out interior lamp.) Some customers tell us that they totally depend on us to tell them what's needed and when. Some techs take that as a green light to empty the customer's pockets. I take it as a heavy responsibility to recommend what's needed while not price gouging.

[Stig / Major Tom]

I figured this would get a response from you Forbes.
When I was younger I often said I'd rather have an good & honest car mechanic - than a good doctor. (not sure I'd say that so loudly at my present age)

Forbes - it is just so hard to find good auto servicing.
A few yrs ago when I took my fairly new Toyota in for service - I asked what does Toyota say I need to do for my car at this mileage?
The service rep. handed me a "menu" and asked me to check everything I wanted done. WTH ?!
No, the question was "What does the manufacturer say is needed at this age & mileage....like Volkswagen does and my scooter does??"

When I saw 4 new spark plugs with a menu price of $167 I walked away. "$40 plugs!"
I bought 4 $6 NGK's and installed them in 30 mins.
My old Jetta was dropped off for a $30 alignment at a Bear shop. After work I go back and his wife hands me a list totaling $999.00 of things that need doing before they can start the work.
I drove that work car for another 6 years...as is... I got the alignment close with a pair of yrd sticks.

When we find a good mechanic - we share it amongst friends and family like a great pie. Sadly, another just died last week.
Stig

[Mr. Paul]

This is a great thread.  I witnessed an elderly couple being charge an $80.00 diagnostic charge to clear their check engine light because of a loose fuel cap! I should have said something but they had already paid and I was at work making deliveries to that business.  I recommended to everyone to stay away from that shop and as far as I know, they are out of business.    I do have an honest, local mechanic if there is anything I cannot handle. He only accepts cash. He gives an honest upfront estimate. He does a good job.

[Forbes1964]

I figured this would get a response from you Forbes.
When I was younger I often said I'd rather have an good & honest car mechanic - than a good doctor. (not sure I'd say that so loudly at my present age)

Forbes - it is just so hard to find good auto servicing.
A few yrs ago when I took my fairly new Toyota in for service - I asked what does Toyota say I need to do for my car at this mileage?
The service rep. handed me a "menu" and asked me to check everything I wanted done. WTH ?!
No, the question was "What does the manufacturer say is needed at this age & mileage....like Volkswagen does and my scooter does??"

When I saw 4 new spark plugs with a menu price of $167 I walked away. "$40 plugs!"
I bought 4 $6 NGK's and installed them in 30 mins.
My old Jetta was dropped off for a $30 alignment at a Bear shop. After work I go back and his wife hands me a list totaling $999.00 of things that need doing before they can start the work.
I drove that work car for another 6 years...as is... I got the alignment close with a pair of yrd sticks.

When we find a good mechanic - we share it amongst friends and family like a great pie. Sadly, another just died last week.
Stig

You may not believe this. But my Dad and I lost a job because we were HONEST. Back in the late 1980s, a guy  brought his mid 1970s Cutlass into our shop for an estimate on a brake job. We inspected it. And it needed only a basic brake job . We priced resurfacing the rotors and drums and rebuilding the rear wheel cylinders (that was before it bacame cheaper to simply replace them). He may have been able to forego resurfacing the rotors. But he seemed to WANT to spend some money. Anyway, we gave him the estimate, and he asked why we were so much cheaper than the other estimate he has gotten. He showed it to us . The other guys had also priced new drums, rotors, and calipers. None of which was even remotely needed. He was skeptical of us and said that he didn't trust us because we were Soooo much cheaper. We explained that we were replacing only what was needed. He gave us an incredulous look and drove away.

[Forbes1964]

This is a great thread.  I witnessed an elderly couple being charge an $80.00 diagnostic charge to clear their check engine light because of a loose fuel cap! I should have said something but they had already paid and I was at work making deliveries to that business.  I recommended to everyone to stay away from that shop and as far as I know, they are out of business.    I do have an honest, local mechanic if there is anything I cannot handle. He only accepts cash. He gives an honest upfront estimate. He does a good job.

In most cases, we techs have discretion over things like that. In my case I'll either tell the service adviser to just let them go or at most charge them a nominal fee since I did have to drop what I was doing and use that clunky 5000.00 piece of shop equipment  that I had to reboot twice because the PC it's connected to froze . And it took me 25 minutes to retrieve and clear  a simple code. Of course, if I'd known that it was a simple loose fuel cap, I would have used my 80.00 hand held scanner I bought from harbor freight. Lol

[Forbes1964]

You do know that I have to share my "customer got over on us" horror story. Lol
 We had a customer who bought a well worn 2006 f350 dually 6.0 diesel from a private owner without really checking it over. He also purchased a warranty r us type service contract from somebody. The first repair was head gaskets.He brought it by without an appointment, and  He had to have his truck by the weekend. I busted my tale and came in on a SATURDAY to finish (the shop is closed on Saturday) . Finished it and took it on a 20 Mile test drive. He promptly drove it on a 1500 mile trip with no problems. Later, his fan clutch went out. Sometime later, his water pump. The warranty company would only pay for what was needed at the time. They would not replace parts that were related that may be near failure. He complained that his truck ran just below the hot line when he was towing a load. Meanwhile we also replaced rear axle seals, brake pads, sticking calipers , , ball joints, tie rods, rear crank seal, power steering pump, a few fuel injectors, a fuel pump, and some other things. The rotors were resurfaced.  I replaced the oil cooler under FORD warranty because it had been replaced at another dealer recently. All these were done at various times. I even replaced his turbo because it was borderline. And his warranty company said that they would not cover any more repairs because they had spent the truck's value. Each time he was ALWAYS in a hurry. He would claim near overheating. But he would NEVER bring it with the trailer attached.
I remember driving it on a 50 mile stretch at speeds of 80+ to make it overheat. It never did. Well each time he brought it in, his sorry warranty would cover SOME repairs, and he was to pay for the others. I figured that either he was overloading it, or he had done some damage when his water pump went bad. We made an appointment so I could dive into it again. Well, he Didn't. And I found out that he owed the shop 3 grand in deductables.

[Forbes1964]

Oh, before he got it, the truck had been involved in 4 accidents and had 5 owners in seven years.

[imaginetheory]

There are a lot of scooter/motorcycle shops that do this too, Luckily a lot of my customers can tell when they are being had on by the shops and tend to call me for some advice/to get me to go and check the "issues" out.

Some of the best "quotes" I have ever seen with my prices in brackets - £129.99 to replace a headlight bulb on a Honda Spree (£19.99) . £450 to service a Suzuki Burgman 400 (no more than £200). £300 for a new rear tyre on a Honda Spree (£59.99) . New brake pads on a Yamaha Aerox £199 (£49.99) £2,000 for a top end rebuild on a lexmoto gladiator 125cc (chinese) (£290)..

Personally, I give every scooter I work on a quick check over. If it's a small, no parts cost job like tightening up a few bolts or cleaning a part up, it's free. If it's going to take less than 15 mins and requires a part, it's part cost only. I'll advise when something needs doing soonish and I'll put it in writing but I'll only ever quote for the job when requested, No pressure on the owner.

There's making money being a P.O.S (in my eyes they are anyway) and then there's making money being honest, I know which Id rather do. and the funny thing is, I see these guys in the shops sitting twiddling their thumbs all of the time, yet Im never able to stop because Im ALWAYS on the go.

[Stig / Major Tom]

There are a lot of scooter/motorcycle shops that do this too, Luckily a lot of my customers can tell when they are being had on by the shops and tend to call me for some advice/to get me to go and check the "issues" out.

Some of the best "quotes" I have ever seen with my prices in brackets - £129.99 to replace a headlight bulb on a Honda Spree (£19.99) . £450 to service a Suzuki Burgman 400 (no more than £200). £300 for a new rear tyre on a Honda Spree (£59.99) . New brake pads on a Yamaha Aerox £199 (£49.99) £2,000 for a top end rebuild on a lexmoto gladiator 125cc (chinese) (£290)..

Personally, I give every scooter I work on a quick check over. If it's a small, no parts cost job like tightening up a few bolts or cleaning a part up, it's free. If it's going to take less than 15 mins and requires a part, it's part cost only. I'll advise when something needs doing soonish and I'll put it in writing but I'll only ever quote for the job when requested, No pressure on the owner.

There's making money being a P.O.S (in my eyes they are anyway) and then there's making money being honest, I know which Id rather do. and the funny thing is, I see these guys in the shops sitting twiddling their thumbs all of the time, yet Im never able to stop because Im ALWAYS on the go.

What we all would give to have mechanics like you and Forbes nearby .....or even within 100 miles !!
I know...in every line of work there are good workers and the other kind.
I was a public employee for nearly three decades and was saddled with that reputation for all of it by the public. Understood their frustration with govt office workers.
Stig

[bleys]

@Crossbolt - Karl, being in the medical field, I feel that I had to respond.  I have never received a kickback or incentive in anyway for ordering a test, that I felt was necessary.   In fact, at the hospital where I work, there is a specific code of ethics that prevents any such thing.   AND due to the hospital's agreement with the insurances, any testing that is ordered is reviewed and may be refused payment for if the insurance company does not agree it was necessary.   Finally, in many cases, the additional testing ordered often is subtracted from what the insurance company will pay for the visit. 
Now I will agree that there are doctors who do have agreements with pharmaceutical companies and receive what is essentially a "bounty" on starting patients on medications.   I would suggest that you run from these people as fast as possible.  I know a few of these, and there is no question that they are motivated by greed.  But please don't paint all doctors with such broad strokes.  Most of my colleagues are motivated by doing what is best for their patients, despite often spending hours a day arguing with insurance companies for authorizations for test and medications.

Also, I guess I have been lucky with mechanics.  I have only gone to people that made me feel comfortable.  And this was the test.  I would have my wife talk to the mechanic or head of the shop.  If they talked down to her or made her uncomfortable in anyway, or tried to upsell her, they never got our business.   Only if they treated her with respect, would we work with them.   Still follow this rule and have never had an issue.

Thank you,

Bill