Malossi multivar 2000 variator report

[xsel777]

Heyo.
The malossi multivar 2000 sports variator has arrived from Italy in double quick time thanks to UPS couriers.
I opened up the package and noted some differences.
The variator diameter is bigger.
The boss outer diameter is also bigger.
The rollers are smaller in diameter.
The roller weights are only 20gr, while originals are 33gr.

There is also a huge clutch spring, which should be fun to install.

I hope this thing will give me what I want out of the box ; faster pull away,  and higher top end at lower revs.

It only came with one set of rollers, so experimenting is currently not an option.



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[xsel777]

Some interesting observations :
After installation, and the test was started,  the revs went up to 5k and the scoot  hardly moved.
I could get moving but the revs remained high, too high.
My top end was very much reduced.

I decided to sand the clutch and bell because many hands had touched it before I found an engineering company who could replace the clutch spring, as I don't have a 42mm socket or a big enough adjustable wrench.

That did nothing to this bad behavior.

I then changed the malossi rollers for my original Kymco rollers.
The difference was immediate.
The scoot pulled away smoothly but slower than usual.
I got to 155kmh with the revs at 7000 which I am extremely happy about.
Red line is 7500rpm .

My issue is that the malossi rollers seem to be the wrong diameter or weight.
Wrong diameter because the back plate went in really deep because the malossi rollers have a smaller diameter.
25 vs 29.
Or else it is the weight that is now the issue.

I don't know whether to get heavier malossi rollers (currently 20gr)at the 25dia, or lighter Kymco or alternative rollers at 29dia.
What do you suggest?

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[xsel777]

I took some old rollers and melted sliders to an engineering company to rework  so I will be able to try out some weight combinations with the 2 different dimensions.
I got hold of the local Vespa mechanic, and he was very helpful explaining what the different dimensions will do, but nothing beats experiential knowledge.!

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[xsel777]

The Vespa mechanic also said the malossi variator is designed to keep the revs in the power band, through the whole range.

I took it for another test drive.
It is sluggish up to 4000rpm,then it surges at ever increasing speed.
I got nearly 160km with rpm at  just under 7500rpm.
This is what i wanted at the top end.
Now to get the pull away faster.

The Vespa mechanic explained it like I am now pulling away in 2nd gear,which is what it feels like .


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[htcneil2]

keep testing. very interted to hear results

[xsel777]

What causes a rhythmic vibration at a steady high speed?
It becomes apparent at 120kmh,and gets steadily worse as the speed increases.
When accelerating or de-accelerating the vibration is gone. Then going steady again, it returns.
It only started after I fitted the malossi variator.
I have had it in the past when I removed the washer that sits just on the inside of the outer variator face. Putting the washer back -  all OK again.
So, is it the belt, the washer, the rollers? Or anything else?

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[Mr. Paul]

I cannot remember, did you replace the belt?  I have found I get that vibration with a new belt and it quiets down over time.

[xsel777]

I did not replace the belt, but do have a spare I can try. I am also rotating the variator and the clutch on their splines, to see if it is a balancing problem.
I do notice the clutch bell is not 100% true when rotating. Looking from the top I can see it goes in and out by 2mm or so.
I wonder if I can get it straightened. It is not out of round that I can see, but I can see that it is slightly scew on its axis.


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[xsel777]

Testing update : I got the modified rollers from the engineer.
The malossi have a 10mm hollow Centre. I had it threaded and tried various sized grub screws using blue loctite to keep them from unthreading while riding !
I got to the max length 20mm and the result so  far are:
High revs up to 5k on pull away, bike quite zesty, but really buzzy with engine noise, a lot more noise in proportion to forward motion /like a gear too high.
The revs stay at 5k while the speed increases to 80km.
After that revs creep up slowly, and I stopped at 130km revs 6500.
There was not enough freeway as I was turning off, and in any case I still don't like the high revs in pull away, so this is an interim solution only.
I took the malossi rollers out and fitted my old original Kymco rollers,which were Skimmed to 25mm Dia, and weighing 29grams.
They behaved the same, just slightly less on the revs.

My next move is to get the malossi rollers hole increased to 12mm and threaded again.
12x20mm grub screws weigh 10.8gr, and taking into account the slight loss of aluminum with the bigger thread, I estimate each roller will weigh 30gr..
Note that the kit came with 20gr rollers, so completely out of the ball park!
So conclusion :
The thinner Dia rollers make for proper 1st gear pull away.
I just need more weight to lower rpm and get my target 160km top end.
Currently 29 gr, with only  a 1gr increase envisaged, but I suppose could increase the thread to 14mm if need be.
That's all for now folks.

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[xsel777]

It dawned on me to check my removed new Kymco rollers. I forgot I had fitted inserts,x 3. That made average weight 34.8gr.dia 29mm.
I have now transferred them to the machined old Kymco rollers which have a Dia of 25mm,(same as malossi) average weight will be 30.8gr.
Testing ongoing.

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[xsel777]

Still a nice smooth pull away in 1st, but revs still to high.
Another 3 inserts, with average weight now 32.5gr.
Testing ongoing .


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[xsel777]

Ok, pull away still smooth, and if I don't race, then the revs go to 4k,climb slowly and steadily to 7500 with top speed being 140km.
This won't work for me.

I have put my Kymco 29mm Dia rollers back in tonight after a days ride.
I believe they weigh the same as the ones just removed, 32.8gr.
Just slightly less than the first time I had them in since there were 3 inserts as well.

Hopefully 1 less  gram will be the ticket for a slightly better pull away (remember, they were super slow before) and I can still get close to  my target top end.

My sensitive scale has bombed so I will have to scale back the testing until I get another from China.
I hope it has been informative so  far.


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[xsel777]

I think it might be a little better, but still feels strained on pull away.

The surge is still there with the bigger rollers, so that is good.

Revs climb steadily to 5k and then stay there awhile, and then go slowly upwards.
My target of 160kmh/7500 rpm is still attainable.

In the meanwhile I am getting the malossi sports rollers reamed and threaded to 14mm.
With grub screws inserted they might be heavier than stock, so that is still to be seen .

There is a judder at pull away, which I can minimize by going wot from standstill, and then easing off.

Still testing.

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[xsel777]

It dawned on me that the belt is starting from a higher up position on the variator due to the stock rollers (bigger dia) being fitted to the malossi sports variator.
I 'adjusted' a big washer I found to 1mm thick and added it to the washer/spacer on the outer edge of the boss,thus widening the distance between the two halves.
Now pull away is much better, and smoother, and throttle response is good.
The surge is still there, but more gentle.

I have only got to  130kmh thus far with revs at 6+.
If I race up to the 130 then the revs are higher than if I gently climb to that same speed.

Updates to follow.

This detail is here for some other xc500 rider to not have to battle,  but just take the nuggets.
This is the stock rollers on malossi multivar 2000 variator with an extra spacer inside the outer face.


Malossi with 14x20mm grub screws

The old Kymco stock rollers, lathe worked to remove flat spots, same dia(25mm)as malossi, with my home made inserts.

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[xsel777]

I think I am done with the testing for now.
On  a run I did yesturday, northbound I got 155kmh/7500 and southbound 160\7500.

Accelerating slower to top speed achieves lower rpm .

Also of note, once at desired speed, easing off the throttle brings revs down, but speed stays the same

I hope this thread proves useful to someone who wants to eek out a bit more performance from their Xc500.

End of report.


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