One more look at the valve adjustment specification

[Duddy03]

Hi:  I noticed a Vehicle Emission Control Information on my Like 200i (see attached pix).  Notice the spec for the valve adjustment which is 0.06 +/- .02 mm.  Since my maintenance manual says 0.1 mm and this is what most forum member use, I sent the following e-mail to Cyclepedia and received a response:

"I own the Cyclepedia Service Manual for the KYMCO Like 200i. Page 84 states that the cold valve clearance spec is 0.10 mm for both the intact and exhaust valves.  However, a label affixed to my 2015 scooter (see attached) lists 0.06 mm plus/minus 0.02 mm.  Since the valve setting is critical to the operation of the engine and its lifespan, it's important to get this right!  The spec used by members of the Like 200i forum is 0.10 mm.  Some members say the exhaust valve should be slightly greater than the intake.  Can you verify this specification?"

"Secondly, and not as critical: Page 31 of the Cyclepedia Manual says the octane of gasoline should be 92 or 95.  However, my KYMCO Owner's Manual (page 15) says 91 and the label (see attached) says 87. Please Clarify.  Thanks for your assistance." 

Their reply:  "We will confirm this with Kymco and update the manual accordingly but I have to think the sticker on your vehicle is accurate.  I always go with the manufacture's instructions when adjusting valves so if the clearance is the same for intake and exhaust then that is how I set the valves.  Some engines do give different specs for intake and exhaust and some are the same, If they give a range then I set the valves in the middle of the range.  As for the fuel octane I would think the sticker is accurate as well, 87 octane should be fine."  Greg Gardner, Cyclepedia Press LLC  http://www.cyclepedia.com  828-645-0017

After contacting KYMCO, Cyclepedia confirmed that the Emission sticker is correct.  I'm not suggesting that any of you waiver from the 0.1 mm specification but I would be interested in your feedback.

[ole two wheels]

Hi Duddy. Welcome to the forum. It is a very good source of information concerning the Kymco vehicles. Like you, I would think that the one's who make the machines would know what they need and I follow their directions.


Mac, aka "ole two wheels"

[CROSSBOLT]

Good questions. Stig is one of the resident gurus of the Like so I would wait until he checks in and  follow what he says. We had a Like 200i and I used .1 mm/.004" for intake and exhaust plus 87 (R+M/2) octane fuel. I think we had about 8000 miles when we traded for a People GT300i but no problems. See what Stig says. There are many mistakes, omissions and errors in the owner's manual, service manual and placards on all Kymcos.

Karl

[TroutBum]

I have been using 0.1 mm/.004" for both intake and exhaust for the past 14,000 miles and 92 (R+M/2) octane fuel. My dealer when I bought the scooter over 4 years ago said 87 (R+M/2) octane is all that is needed. I'm happy with the performance and results of the specs I have been using. 

[vespbretta]

Kymco Europe wants - according to information from a respected German Kymco Dealer and Mechanic - for all their Engines 0,12mm or 0,005".
In older Manuals you will find 0,10mm or 0,004". I tested both and both worked well. Approx. 10.500km now.
But in my humble opinion there is also no good reason to go below 0,10mm or 0,004". And I woudn´t want to risk burned valves because of a too tight valve lash...
And as already said and mentioned by others here, Kymco´s technical documentation can´t be trusted too much. They write pretty much crap once in a while...

I use 95 Octane unleaded fuel, but only because the 91 Octane fuel costs the same as the 95 Octane and the 87 Octane fuel is not available in Europe.
And I always wondered, why you are still having that 87 Octane crap over the atlantic and which cars/motorcycles would still run properly with that "homeopathic juice".
 

[Stig / Major Tom]

I just finished a valve clearance check yesterday, and came in to find this interesting post.
I have always used .004" (inches) on my LIKE200i....and I never worry if I hear a little tappet clicking at idle. A little click just tells me my valves are properly adjusted. For 12,000 miles.(on scoots or in VW's) Actually, if I'm ticking at idle I don't even hear/notice it any longer.


So, I'll add this to the discussion.

 This is from an experienced aircooled VW mechanic:

"Incorrectly adjusted valves can cause the engine to stall. Too tight, and they don't seal/seat down properly,  and will eventually burn that valve. Much too loose and the valve timing changes, so the engine sounds rattly and runs rough. You hear a significant "Clicking" at idle.

If the valve clearance is tight they don't fully close. This just makes for leaking gases. The exhaust gas is the problem here. If it leaks past the valve continuously on each stroke, it heats up the valve (which needs to sit down on the cooler seat to shed some of it's built up heat) and so the valve stretches, which causes it to be opened more, which creates a worse leak.....

If you check your valves very regularly, you could try setting them at 0.004" though instead of 0.006". VW eventually only went to 0.006" so there was more leeway for the valves stretching with age, expecting drivers to be lazy with maintenance. I've always used 0.004", and don't have a tappet noise problem.  Mine rarely need adjusting at the regular & frequent check-ups when using 0.004"."

Stig writes:
As a longtime VW owner - I was always told that a little valve tappet 'clicking' was the sound of a healthy/happy motor....and I kept my valve lash at .004 with frequent maintenance.

If you take a .06mm feeler blade in your hands - you will note that it is little more than a piece of metal foil....WAY too small of a valve lash gap for my personal comfort!!  And the Kymco sticker states that a variance of .02mm from that .06mm is OK, too.
If you think an .06mm blade is thin - feel a .04mm blade!!!

Made me wonder if the factory sticker maker has mixed up his millimeters and inches ?

I check for spare fuses, tight fasteners, when opening the battery cover for the valve inspection.


While I have panels out - I give them a wash.


That's an .004" blade in there yesterday. (FYI- valve lash has not needed changed since November 2014 according to my service records. I check @ every 1200 miles;oil changes at 600 mile intervals)


Again, IMHO - if your valves are adjusted at .004" or .005" - then a little valve tapping at idle is a healthy sound. Worry about something else - because your valves are properly adjusted. I am never going to go to .04mm>.08mm. ....too close to no gap at all for my comfort.

Stig
PS: I use SHELL Nitro 93 octane.

[Duddy03]

Thanks for everyone's reply on the value adjustment issue.

My scooter struggles a little with 2 riders when going up a hill.  Has anyone noticed engine detonation in a situation like this and when using 87 octane, 10% ethanol gas?  Or does the ECU back off the timing a little to prevent pre-ignition?

[CROSSBOLT]

I knew Stig would have a good presentation even with pictures! Never any detonation, Duddy, and probably never will 'cause I do not think it is possible to "lug" the engine with a CVT. Additionally, the ECU probably has a wide enough range to preclude any knocking.

Karl

[vespbretta]

No academic presentation needed.
Just make sure that your valve lash is correctly set to 0.004" or 0.005".
If you were riding often with full load (2 Person together max. 149kg/328lbs!) and uphill, I would recommend the 0.005" lash.
Also check the correct tire pressure (30psi front and 33psi back).
Use better quality fuel, like 91 Octane or better.
As far as I know is ethanol fuel still not recommended for Kymco Scooters. I don´t use ethanol fuel.
What does the 2015 owner´s manual say?

Edit:
Did the research and found that ethanol fuel up to E10 is obviously allowed on the 4-stroke models. But not on the 2-stroke models. 2-stoke models better no ethanol or max. E5.
Nevertheless when I can avoid it, I avoid it...

[ole two wheels]

A little off topic, but ethanol fuel was mentioned. You pay 20 to 40 thousand bucks car a new car, in the USA and unless it's flex fuel, then your owner's manual says no more than 15%  ethanol allowed.
It further states that using more than 15% voids your warranty.. You go to the gas station and this label on the pump says, "all fuel grades contain ethanol." That's nice, but how much????When you call the oil company who delivers the gas and ask them why the label doesn't state the percentage . Their answer is, "we're not required, by law, to state the percentage levels". I e-mailed my congress woman, who is a personal friend,about it Her response was, "Oh ethanol is good for the farmers and the economy". Well whoopee, but what about me and my high dollars car?? Looks like the government is supplying the car companies with ways to get out of the warranty. I have a problem with that. What do you think?

Mac

[vespbretta]

You already answered your question yourself.  The making of bioethanol is relatively expensive compared to fuel, so fuel/oil companys try to save money by not adding the full percentage of what the sticker at the gaspump says.  Fueltests showed, that the percentage of bioethanol in the fuel is actually lower than expected.

So fuel without further information about the ethanol percentage I would expect to be in the range somewhere between 10% and 15% or even below, as described above.

Long story short: Your new car and your warranty should not be in danger. 


Ethanol fuel in the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_the_United_States

[Stig / Major Tom]

A little off topic, but ethanol fuel was mentioned. You pay 20 to 40 thousand bucks car a new car, in the USA and unless it's flex fuel, then your owner's manual says no more than 15%  ethanol allowed.
It further states that using more than 15% voids your warranty.. You go to the gas station and this label on the pump says, "all fuel grades contain ethanol." That's nice, but how much????When you call the oil company who delivers the gas and ask them why the label doesn't state the percentage . Their answer is, "we're not required, by law, to state the percentage levels". I e-mailed my congress woman, who is a personal friend,about it Her response was, "Oh ethanol is good for the farmers and the economy". Well whoopee, but what about me and my high dollars car?? Looks like the government is supplying the car companies with ways to get out of the warranty. I have a problem with that. What do you think?

Mac

No worries Mac,
We had a wonderful little 1.5L Scion xB that ran like a bleedin top for 215,000 miles on Ohio corn gas.(until totaled while parked by a drunk)
Also, going into 4th year with my Kymco, running flawlessly on the same ethanol gas.
No brainer really....it is the ONLY gas you can buy in these parts  - so you either sell horses or the ethanol gas does not harm new vehicles and you can sell cars, bike or scoots without them blowing up.

Motorcycle and scooter dealers would be out of business....
My dealer fills all new scoots, (Ducati's, Gold Wings, Yams, Sakis,, etc.)  and Spiders with ethanol gas from the Shell station 1/8th mile down the street.

My 4 yr old LIKE200i has no issues with it, my  Forza ran fine on it, my Burgman is running fine on it, my son's CB500X runs fine on it, as do my Chevy truck and new xB.

If I had a high dollar vehicle I'd have the good stuff Vespbretta uses flown in from Europe, maybe.

As for lugging the LIKE200i to the point of detonation with a load - uphill - I've never experienced that. It hauls my 6'3" 250lb frame up long hills right smartly. Impressively, frankly. (I glance down at the speedo and am impressed that we're doing this ...@ 45 mph and @7130 rpm's - which might be a function of the Dr Pulley sliders in there) I use premium gas (93 oct) Dr Pulley's and Iridium NGK's in all my scooters.
Stig
I love scoot pictures