winter starting issues still

[jan.strydom]

I have read all the starting problems with the exciting 500Ri - now for 8 years never had the problem but this year this bike wont start in the mornings - new battery, overhauled starter - the only way is with full battery and one of those li ion jump starters or car jumpers, this said if it does not kick up after the first few turns then it just floods it self and then that's it for the day.

I am so fed up with all the stories from dealers and so called mechanics - I am very fed up to say the least................

[CROSSBOLT]

Try opening the gas cap before you try to start it. Humor me Jan, I think your vent valve is stuck closed. 8 years, it shoulda stuck closed a long time ago! Please post results so we know if we should lock me up or not!

Karl

[jan.strydom]

  Thank you Crossbolt, will certainly give it a try................

[Stig / Major Tom]

Alternatively - 8 years of good service from a scooter is laudatory....
Life is shorter than we like to think, so, maybe a nice lightly used new scooter will save your sanity and prevent heart disease.
As Sherlock Homes said:  "when you've tried all else, it is OK to give up and get another scooter."

There is that poor soul on youtube still trying to start his 500....
Stig

[xsel777]

Jan, you must have read my story on this forum.
My best result was from a new stator and a new regulator, after solenoid, starter, and exhaust  decompression cam had already been replaced. I also have a gel battery installed.

Sent from my MI MAX using Tapatalk

[jan.strydom]

Yes, I have had marvelous service from the bike - have taken good care of it - it has only 27000km on it, second set of tyres, one belt, same rollers, clutch serviced and a new rectifier  - so the starting issue only reared it's head this winter............but Yes, thinking to replace......

[CROSSBOLT]

I have to admit there is overwhelming evidence of a marginal starting system on the 500's even in the side-by-side. But one getting 8 years before "the bug" shows up is noteworthy. It will be interesting to see what solves your problem.

Karl

[jan.strydom]

  raining our side so I will only try start on the weekend - will certainly let you know, Karl

[Cortez]

Oh this is interesting.

I just bought a 11 year old XC500 2006 and solving some issues I've found, no biggie, but the extremely slow turning starter
is baffling both me and my head mechanic/boss - we both work at a Kymco dealership/repair shop BTW.

Battery is a year old and performing great (tried with a huge battery too), the starter was a bit under the weather and was
refreshed by an electrician, still same issue.

First start in the mornings at still rather low temperatures = VERY slow turning and needs at least 30-40 seconds of cranking
to start (I do it in 3-4 series of 10 seconds).

I'll try the gas cap thing, that's interesting.
Other then that, I wonder what else can cause that issue.

The bike is running perfectly fine after it starts.

[MJR]

Oh this is interesting.

I just bought a 11 year old XC500 2006 and solving some issues I've found, no biggie, but the extremely slow turning starter
is baffling both me and my head mechanic/boss - we both work at a Kymco dealership/repair shop BTW.

Battery is a year old and performing great (tried with a huge battery too), the starter was a bit under the weather and was
refreshed by an electrician, still same issue.

First start in the mornings at still rather low temperatures = VERY slow turning and needs at least 30-40 seconds of cranking
to start (I do it in 3-4 series of 10 seconds).

I'll try the gas cap thing, that's interesting.
Other then that, I wonder what else can cause that issue.

The bike is running perfectly fine after it starts.

Did the electrician bench test the starter before and after the rebuild? If you rule out the starter and battery then the only things left are the main ground to the engine and main power feed wire to the starter. Poor connections/wire can be temperature sensitive.

[Cortez]

Did the electrician bench test the starter before and after the rebuild? If you rule out the starter and battery then the only things left are the main ground to the engine and main power feed wire to the starter. Poor connections/wire can be temperature sensitive.

Poor connection can cause the starter to turn slowly?
That doesn't make much sense to me but ok.

I'm not sure what the electrician did but he did find some issues when he took it apart and fixed them.
I was wondering if anyone knew if there are any aftermarket/3rd party starter motors available for the XC500?

[MJR]

Poor connection can cause the starter to turn slowly?
That doesn't make much sense to me but ok.

In my years working on automotive stuff I've seen battery acid seep into the wire causing it to swell up. If the starter doesn't have a good connection/wire it can reduce the voltage going to it slowing it down potential.

[CROSSBOLT]

A poor connection will make the starter turn slowly under load, guaranteed. Additionally, that connection will get very hot. Have you noticed any melted insulation or smoke during one of these hard-start episodes? Venting the tank will have NO effect on starter speed, just in case you were wondering. A stuck vent with either pressure in the tank or a vacuum may cause hard starting and will certainly affect idle an may affect running. Our UXV 500i side-by-side is a real crappy, unpredictable starter. The starter will stall trying to get that big piston over dead center, sometimes. Other times, it spins everything to a fine start. Not predictable so we have to be ready with "pilot technique." Personally, I think the starter motor and/or battery are too small for the application. The DT300i starts the same way, EVERY TIME. The 500s seem to be the ones with this problem. One thing to consider is the field strength of that permanent magnet motor. There are places somewhere that can remagnetize those pole pieces. More field strength = more torque. Another "bright idea" may be to replace the cables from battery to starter with the next size larger. This would include to and from the solenoid. More current = more torque. Both of these "bright ideas" would be easier than adapting a geared starter to the engine. De dee could do that but he is in Canada!

Please regard all this is NOT experience with the 500's but based on experience with other machinery systems. Use a "grain of salt" when trying these ideas of mine! You will probably come up with other, better ideas. I have no doubt that this problem on this model will be solved by the people on THIS FORUM and no where else!

Karl

[Cortez]

A poor connection will make the starter turn slowly under load, guaranteed. Additionally, that connection will get very hot. Have you noticed any melted insulation or smoke during one of these hard-start episodes? Venting the tank will have NO effect on starter speed, just in case you were wondering. A stuck vent with either pressure in the tank or a vacuum may cause hard starting and will certainly affect idle an may affect running. Our UXV 500i side-by-side is a real crappy, unpredictable starter. The starter will stall trying to get that big piston over dead center, sometimes. Other times, it spins everything to a fine start. Not predictable so we have to be ready with "pilot technique." Personally, I think the starter motor and/or battery are too small for the application. The DT300i starts the same way, EVERY TIME. The 500s seem to be the ones with this problem. One thing to consider is the field strength of that permanent magnet motor. There are places somewhere that can remagnetize those pole pieces. More field strength = more torque. Another "bright idea" may be to replace the cables from battery to starter with the next size larger. This would include to and from the solenoid. More current = more torque. Both of these "bright ideas" would be easier than adapting a geared starter to the engine. De dee could do that but he is in Canada!

Please regard all this is NOT experience with the 500's but based on experience with other machinery systems. Use a "grain of salt" when trying these ideas of mine! You will probably come up with other, better ideas. I have no doubt that this problem on this model will be solved by the people on THIS FORUM and no where else!

Karl

Sounds like your UXV experience is the same as mine. That's exactly how it behaves.
Sometimes sounds like it will completely stop.

On the other hand, that's only the first, cold start.
After that it usually starts in the first second of cranking.

My DT300i started beautifully from day one till the day I sold it around 11k miles.

[jan.strydom]

Well I eventually got back to my bike - the starting issue(mornings only) prevail. I opened the tank....no difference. had the new battery checked again, all good as per their tests, charge voltage above 14v - the only way my bike starts is jumper cables from my cars 100amp alternator and battery - the car has to rev at around 3000rpm and then the bike fires up almost immediately.

My garage(Kymco dealer) has no answer as when I get it to them the bike starts up first kick - they did overhaul the starter motor a few weeks back...............wanted to add - it still floods if it does not kick the first time - nothing will help....wait ten minutes , try again and then starts first time - I never touch the throttle to flood the engine.............


Fed up............yes!!