Making a case for scooters.

[Stig / Major Tom]

And when does a scooter become no longer a scooter - but a shiftless cruiser motorcycle?
Is it weight, wheelbase, cc's wherein a scooter is no longer a scooter.

Does it have anything to do with complicated mechanicals - which go beyond the capabilities of the average amateur mechanic with a few tools?

Yeah, it's no secret - I've crossed back over that line - and, for me, all of the above characteristics are so unappealing and so far from the original concept and purpose of a scooter as imagined in the 1940's.

To me, a scooter is a simple to ride, move, repair, service, small engined vehicle for urban and rural riding - as originally imagined in the 1940's.

Modern motorcycles are so easy to ride now - with shift-helps and smooth mechanics. The same engined bike costs less than a scoot so covered in plastic as to make routine servicing so much a nightmare that most owners fabricate reasons to skip it.
Where is the need for monster scooters? A bike with a top case and side cans can carry a scooter's loads?

Yes, this IS a forum for Kymco's of all sizes.
And I know, it is nearly unAmerican to not be a fan of size and horsepower. I just got exercised today when reading the criticisms hoisted upon a guy who was thinking of buying a Honda Metropolitan. A guy shouldn't have to defend himself for being interested in a scooter that is not huge. (and vice-versa - but those guys usually are subject only to envy)

I'd draw the line on scooters at @ that lovely BV350....and she's just barely in.
When the truckers were here to collect my Burgman - both of them remarked when moving it around - that it seemed less a scooter and more of a motorcycle.
I had to agree with them, and mine was only a 500lb 400cc.
I headed back to scootering.

A nice Vino scooter

Stig

[Petey4]

Sounds trivial, but the dividing line for me came down to the step-through. As someone with health issues (joints, etc) I actually have a lot easier time commuting with my scooter than with my car. In fact, getting in and out of my car is one of the more painful things I do. I never considered going back to a motorcycle because I felt I needed the step-through.

Riding, too, is easier on my body than driving, because riding mainly involves gently leaning in tandem with inertia -- whereas in my car I always feel like I'm proactively directing everything. Takes more effort. People at work (who know I have health problems) find it surprising I'd ride a scooter, as if it must be very demanding. But I feel more like I'm being blown to work on the breeze.

Of course the other criteria for me is the weight of the machine. Even though it's usually not fully noticed, I have to feel I can manage it when necessary. And scooters, being typically more maneuverable than full motorcycles, allow you to get around town without having to notice their weight as often.

[PaulF]

I suppose the term maxi-scooter takes care of the larger scooters but to me a scooter to be called a scooter then it must have a CVT .

[Stig / Major Tom]

Sounds trivial, but the dividing line for me came down to the step-through. As someone with health issues (joints, etc) I actually have a lot easier time commuting with my scooter than with my car. In fact, getting in and out of my car is one of the more painful things I do. I never considered going back to a motorcycle because I felt I needed the step-through.

Riding, too, is easier on my body than driving, because riding mainly involves gently leaning in tandem with inertia -- whereas in my car I always feel like I'm proactively directing everything. Takes more effort. People at work (who know I have health problems) find it surprising I'd ride a scooter, as if it must be very demanding. But I feel more like I'm being blown to work on the breeze.

Of course the other criteria for me is the weight of the machine. Even though it's usually not fully noticed, I have to feel I can manage it when necessary. And scooters, being typically more maneuverable than full motorcycles, allow you to get around town without having to notice their weight as often.

Agree Petey,
Step through is the way to go.
Had to mount my Burgman and Forza as though they were horses - would have been real fun if they'd had a top case. Something to catch my foot on and fall, or pull the scooter over. At 6'3" I need some leg swinging room!
Those thick high middles on so many scooters are for the birds!
(I know I'm getting scratched off some Xmas card lists here - there seem to be more big Burgmans than the smaller ones, judging by the number of forum posts. Or maybe the big ones just have 4 times the issues? there goes the Easter cards....)
Stig

[Tromper]

I suppose the term maxi-scooter takes care of the larger scooters but to me a scooter to be called a scooter then it must have a CVT .

Dang Paul, don't tell the vintage crowd that...

[PaulF]

Dang Paul, don't tell the vintage crowd that...

Ah yes, you are right as I did not think of the vintage scooters.  I was thinking modern scooters. 

[big blue]

I had considered a "shifty" when I bought the Like but my left wrist sometimes gets cranky and the clutch and shift thing would have been a pain. I almost got a Vespa 200E in the 1980s but bought a Suzuki TS 125 enduro instead from a co worker who figured out too late that two wheel commuting was not for him.

[ole two wheels]

Both my bikes are a pain to mount, but I've learned what to grab where to get on. Sometimes I think I hear a snicker or two when someone is near. Both the DT and the Shadow have a place in my life. I've been riding so many years, I just can't give it up. I tried, I ready did. Motorcycle adrenal rushes and loud pipes and 4 gears, scooter laid back, relaxed, quite, effortless and listening to my jams. I like 'em both. To each his own.......

[Mr. Paul]

Weight+horsepower+max speed and minus 10 for step-through or plus 10 for step-over. The smaller the number, the more scooter-like. I believe it is a matter of degree.

My Helix-455
My People 150-305

[Forbes1964]

When there is storage UNDER the seat, and when a person approaches it from the side and says "oh, that's a scooter "   Then it's still a scooter. By that definition, the Burgman , xciting, Downtown, etc. are scooters. If it looks like a scooter from the front and is a "true" step through, then it's a "traditional" scooter. If there's no storage under the seat, and it looks like a motorcycle when approached from the side. Then it's a motorcycle. That's my unofficial definition.


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[Scooter Dan]

The term scooter has so many meanings as big burly men refer to their hogs as scooters too. The line is blurred with Maxi Scooters that can can easily outrun their V Twin cousins and reach speeds at 120mph. Traditionally scooters were under powered mopeds and some had to be pedaled to get them started. Maxi scooters were anything over 250cc coined by the Helix. Seems like labels divide as we slice and dice this model, this size or this much power and say ours is better. They're all good, from the 900 pound Goldwings to the 50cc Metropolitan as they put a smile on everyone's face. Like the bearded tattooed rider, they're all scooters in my book.

[ole two wheels]

Well said Dan. It's all about what puts a smile on the rider's mug.

[Mr. Paul]

When there is storage UNDER the seat, and when a person approaches it from the side and says "oh, that's a scooter "   Then it's still a scooter. By that definition, the Burgman , xciting, Downtown, etc. are scooters. If it looks like a scooter from the front and is a "true" step through, then it's a "traditional" scooter. If there's no storage under the seat, and it looks like a motorcycle when approached from the side. Then it's a motorcycle. That's my unofficial definition.


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And there it is! Elegant definition Forbes!

[Tromper]

And there it is! Elegant definition Forbes!

I believe the official U.S. definition involves the brakes being on the handlebars vs one being a foot brake.

This the Burgman 650 & the big bmw scoots with  frame mounted motors and transmissions are scooters here

[Mr. Paul]

I believe the official U.S. definition involves the brakes being on the handlebars vs one being a foot brake.

This the Burgman 650 & the big bmw scoots with  frame mounted motors and transmissions are scooters here

So I guess my Helix is not a scooter. (It is kind of an odd bird)