The real cost of new car fuel economy

[Mr. Paul]

The dual clutch automatic is actually a  manual transmission made to operate automatically. It has no hydraulics, It's all mechanical. The problems with it stem from the fact that the clutch (made just like a manual transmission clutch) is faulty. But Ford wisely limits those transmissions to only the Fiesta and the Focus. I admit that I was VERY skeptical of the Turbos at first. But now I'm a believer. Yes, there is more to break. But the truth is that they don't break as often. However I FULLY admit that if they DO break, repairs are much more expensive. I concede that. But I'm simply amazed at the reliability of MOST modern vehicles conventional Or turbo. And as I stated earlier. Premium fuel is NOT required for the Ford turbo vehicles. But it's recommended if you want to get the last drop of power out of them. I really don't know of ANY of our customers who use premium fuel in their Turbo equipped Fusions, Escapes, Explorers or Tauruses. It's simply not needed . That's why its only a recommendation vs a requirement. With the Ford f150, the sales of the Turbo engines exceed that of the v8. Many of our customers were VERY skeptical at first. But those who buy one Turbo equipped truck usually buy another.  But I recommend avoiding ANY new engine in it's first year of production because that's when they have the growing pains.




I have major respect for you Forbes! I too am amazed at the reliability of the newer vehicles. Its just that I choose to have tried and true fuel injection, a trusty 6 speed tranny, and an engine large enough to be understressed in most situations. In my opinion this is the best combination for longevity and cost of ownership. In my experience turbos have more problems and are more expensive to operate than EFI. And the CVT trannies as a group are still getting the bugs worked out. Ford may absolutely be an exception to this. I bow to your expertise with them sir. 

[Forbes1964]

There is a lot to be said for the tried and true. You can’t go wrong. As for cvt transmissions , I agree that they are quite there yet. But my main problem with them is that I just can’t get used to the sound of the engine . It sounds like the scooters where the engine revs up and the speed of the car catches up with it. I had a cousin trade his brand new cvt equipped car in and get one with a conventional transmission for that reason. He couldn’t get over the feeling that the transmission was slipping. Lol.

Ford decided to continue production of their 5.0 v8 alongside the slightly more powerful twin turbo v6 for their f150 for the foreseeable future just for the traditional person who simply wouldn’t buy a v6 equipped truck as the top engine choice. They aren’t about to risk losing sales just to make a point. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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[ole two wheels]

I love Fords. I was raised being told that a Ford was the only car to have, and it stuck. With that said, Ford has put out a fair share of problematic vehicles, as have GM and Mopar. In recent memory, The 4.0 with 3 cam/timing chains and the Tritan with the spark plug issues and some, not so good conventional auto trannies. GM has had their's and Mopar are, well, TNTM (to numerous to mention), and all have produced, as you said, just plain junk. Motor Trend said a few years back that the Fusion was on track to be on par withe Camry. While a very good car, for Ford, they haven't caught up with the Camry. About three or four years ago Consumer Reports rated the two best cars in the world, tied for first place, the Honda Fit and the Toyota Corolla, over all. And just as a side note, for my money ,,the Ford Mustang is the Baddest and best looking car on planet Earth, bar none.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Used to think I'd want an old, restored, VW Beetle...now I'd rather have an '06 Scion xB.
My son had one of these great first gen. Scions until a drunk totalled it while parked. ABS, traction control, FWD, huge volume, 33mpg's from the 1.3 litre injected engine no matter how it was thrashed. Underside looked 6 mos old ..never rusted.
Of course Toyota corporate wisdom cancelled the Scion line.....though they never spent a dime on advertising. Consistantly rated higher than the hugely advertised Soul, or the Cube.
Son's was approaching 200,000 miles when it was murdered.
Oil changes , tires and 4 Iridium NGK's was all it needed.
Stig

[gregspeople250]

If you want to see a CVT that will live a very long time with no belts and very little maintenance, check out the Prius drive system. Gears only. Running in oil that's to be changed every ~125K (at least that's what I've done on my '06 with 260K miles).

[Mr. Paul]

If you want to see a CVT that will live a very long time with no belts and very little maintenance, check out the Prius drive system. Gears only. Running in oil that's to be changed every ~125K (at least that's what I've done on my '06 with 260K miles).

That sounds like a better CVT system Greg! Gears bathed in oil, I can relate to that.

[ole two wheels]

If the sound of a car with CVT bothers someone, then they need not ever buy an electric car. However, there is hope. There's a place in CA. that sells what they call a VARoooooooooM Box About  $150. for the box, which mounts in the dash, and the sound selector panel which mounts under the dash or on the console. It has 12 sound selections. Everything from a moped to a mopar stroker, or a Indy open wheel car. Not a bad price, until you add the speakers, which they do not sell You will need 2 8" mid rage and 2 8" sub woofers, and 400 watt amp, with speakers preferably mounted in the boot. They fit perfectly in the spare tire well of a Mustang. I talked to a kid who had that set-up. Said he loved to pull up to a red light with the stroker sound on and pick a race with a muscle car and when the light changed , flip over to the moped sound and pull off real slow... The sound box has a vacuum line from the engine that allows the speaker sound to match the car's revs. Neat 0 This is not a joke. The engine sound simulator at VARooooooMbox.com

[Forbes1964]

If you want to see a CVT that will live a very long time with no belts and very little maintenance, check out the Prius drive system. Gears only. Running in oil that's to be changed every ~125K (at least that's what I've done on my '06 with 260K miles).

That’s the same design that The Ford And CMax hybrids use. Gears only. I think I saw ONE that had to be replaced. And it was later found out that the noise was coming from somewhere else. Thankfully, the customer did not have to pay for that expensive experiment.


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[Forbes1964]

That sounds like a better CVT system Greg! Gears bathed in oil, I can relate to that.

The same system used on the hybrid fusion and cmax.


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[Forbes1964]

If the sound of a car with CVT bothers someone, then they need not ever buy an electric car. However, there is hope. There's a place in CA. that sells what they call a VARoooooooooM Box About  $150. for the box, which mounts in the dash, and the sound selector panel which mounts under the dash or on the console. It has 12 sound selections. Everything from a moped to a mopar stroker, or a Indy open wheel car. Not a bad price, until you add the speakers, which they do not sell You will need 2 8" mid rage and 2 8" sub woofers, and 400 watt amp, with speakers preferably mounted in the boot. They fit perfectly in the spare tire well of a Mustang. I talked to a kid who had that set-up. Said he loved to pull up to a red light with the stroker sound on and pick a race with a muscle car and when the light changed , flip over to the moped sound and pull off real slow... The sound box has a vacuum line from the engine that allows the speaker sound to match the car's revs. Neat 0 This is not a joke. The engine sound simulator at VARooooooMbox.com

I admit that in the cvt equipped vehicles, the engine sound takes getting used to, especially under hard acceleration. The engine just revs to the rpm’s where the most power is produced and just stays there until the car catches up, or until you ease off the accelerator. The car may be quick. But in your mind, the transmission is slipping.
If I owned one, I’d take off at full acceleration just to hear the engine rev. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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[Forbes1964]

I love Fords. I was raised being told that a Ford was the only car to have, and it stuck. With that said, Ford has put out a fair share of problematic vehicles, as have GM and Mopar. In recent memory, The 4.0 with 3 cam/timing chains and the Tritan with the spark plug issues and some, not so good conventional auto trannies. GM has had their's and Mopar are, well, TNTM (to numerous to mention), and all have produced, as you said, just plain junk. Motor Trend said a few years back that the Fusion was on track to be on par withe Camry. While a very good car, for Ford, they haven't caught up with the Camry. About three or four years ago Consumer Reports rated the two best cars in the world, tied for first place, the Honda Fit and the Toyota Corolla, over all. And just as a side note, for my money ,,the Ford Mustang is the Baddest and best looking car on planet Earth, bar none.

I agree. And although Fusions are QUITE up to Camry level, they are CLOSE. it’s the stupid mistakes that keep it down such as the trouble prone SYNC radio system. Or the door latches that had to be recalled. But by and large, those cars are causing us (the mechanics) to nearly starve. (Good for the customer though, as it should be).


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[ole two wheels]

Maybe you should stop wrenching Fords and start selling them. With your wealth of knowledge concerning Fords you could convince any customer of their value...(Just joking...once a wrench, always a wrench,, right. I've got a friend that lives nearby and he knows his Fords. Has a shop in the back yard. He will not wrench on anything that doesn't have F O R D on it. Charlie has built some beautiful Mustangs. He built a Willis, cab-over pickup with a 302, AC PS, PW and has a 55 PU he just up graded with a 4 something ci Ford engine, and put independent rear suspension in it and has all the bells and whiles. If I've got a Ford question, Charlie has the right answer.

[Forbes1964]

Maybe you should stop wrenching Fords and start selling them. With your wealth of knowledge concerning Fords you could convince any customer of their value...(Just joking...once a wrench, always a wrench,, right. I've got a friend that lives nearby and he knows his Fords. Has a shop in the back yard. He will not wrench on anything that doesn't have F O R D on it. Charlie has built some beautiful Mustangs. He built a Willis, cab-over pickup with a 302, AC PS, PW and has a 55 PU he just up graded with a 4 something ci Ford engine, and put independent rear suspension in it and has all the bells and whiles. If I've got a Ford question, Charlie has the right answer.

Salesman? Ugggggggggh! My parents taught me morals. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] I Tell the used car salesmen to make sure they find out my opinion of a particular car BEFORE they bring a customer to me to get my assurance that the car checks out. Otherwise, I may reveal something they regret. Lol
As for turning wrenches, They say that I was almost born with a wrench in my hand. My mother says that when I was a toddler, she used to have to warn visitors to wait until I was accounted for before they moved their cars because I sometimes would be under them just looking underneath.


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[ole two wheels]

That's funny about checking their cars before they go. I also grew up with mechanics. I remember my grand father telling about pulling the motor from an A model and carrying it in the house to overhaul it. Said he set the valves with obc cigarette paper. Now that is close tolerance.  He also said, "you don't drive a T or A model, you herd them down the road." He worked in the assembly plant in Memphis and Loraine for 37 years. My father-in-law worked at the Memphis plant all his life also. They both told me, that in the early days, if you could afford a car, and you drove it to work, it better be a Ford or you went on layoff. Yelp, I'm a Ford man through and through. How could I be anything else???

[Forbes1964]

That's funny about checking their cars before they go. I also grew up with mechanics. I remember my grand father telling about pulling the motor from an A model and carrying it in the house to overhaul it. Said he set the valves with obc cigarette paper. Now that is close tolerance.  He also said, "you don't drive a T or A model, you herd them down the road." He worked in the assembly plant in Memphis and Loraine for 37 years. My father-in-law worked at the Memphis plant all his life also. They both told me, that in the early days, if you could afford a car, and you drove it to work, it better be a Ford or you went on layoff. Yelp, I'm a Ford man through and through. How could I be anything else???

I would have loved to have met your grandfather. My dad used to tell me about working on model A’s. His father was a mechanic as well. My grandfather said that the old Chevy trucks were weak and would break an axle in a heartbeat.

Interesting trivia. The Engine in the Ford 8N tractor is basically a slightly modified Model A engine.


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