Variator chatter

[szabgab]

Video is good! Sounds good! But belt action seems a little strange. Just to be sure, measure outside belt length and width. Actually, belt width at several positions around circumference. 5 positions should tell you if is the same for the length. Measure both belts to see what, if any differences. Then the biggie: what should be in there? When I said strange action I meant the front seems to change effective diameter but the rear seems hardly to move.

I have measured the belt like you said,  everything is well within spec.  You are right about the circumference issue,  but it is the crank side,  that is loose,  if I kill the engine at high throttle,  the clutch side is snug, but the crank side pullwwis looae,  it is very easy to move the belt around there (whilst the clutch is holding everything together nice and tight)

Stig -  the chatter disappeares once the clutch engages,  the chatter reappears at idle. 

[Stig / Major Tom]

Has a washer been incorrectly placed between the two front pulleys? Because belt looks too loose in video, so I still think that is belt slap. Really sounds like belt slap in closed CVT cover video.
Worn pulley faces, faces too far apart...? if not belt too long, then some other csuse for loose, slapping belt.

Stig

[szabgab]

Has a washer been incorrectly placed between the two front pulleys? Because belt looks too loose in video, so I still think that is belt slap. Really sounds like belt slap in closed CVT cover video.
Worn pulley faces, faces too far apart...? if not belt too long, then some other csuse for loose, slapping belt.

Stig

No,  I have actually thought,  I might be missing one,  but looking at the parts diagram,  there are no washers,  only underneath the nuts,  also the two sides are not interchangeable either,  as the thread is m12 on one side,  m14 on the other

[de dee]

  Could it be that the big clutch spring has gone soft, ?  allowing the belt to flop and change torque on the variator on and off,  ?

[szabgab]

  Could it be that the big clutch spring has gone soft, ?  allowing the belt to flop and change torque on the variator on and off,  ?

Everything's a bloody possibility with this sodding bike of mine   Although I still think,  it is the other side,  that is not engaging quickly enough,  as you let of the throttle,  clutch side changes,  crank side remains open,  belt flops around for 10-15 secs and eventually evens out,  changing rpm of the engine and quiteing down...  Acceleration is fine,  but that's controlled by the centrifugal force and not by the belt forcing the pullet back to it's place

[CROSSBOLT]

AH-HAH! That is like saying the front pulley half does not slide too well! The rear movable pulley half is positioned by spring pressure totally independent of rpm. The belt position on the rear is determined by spring pressure AND the front pulley. Do you have any lube at all on that sleeve up front? Some guys use dry lube and others like me use an extremely thin coat of moly-disulfide grease.

[szabgab]

AH-HAH! That is like saying the front pulley half does not slide too well! The rear movable pulley half is positioned by spring pressure totally independent of rpm. The belt position on the rear is determined by spring pressure AND the front pulley. Do you have any lube at all on that sleeve up front? Some guys use dry lube and others like me use an extremely thin coat of moly-disulfide grease.

I did lube the sleeve very very sparingly with lithium based bearing grease,  also the ramps,  the sliders slide on,  again just a smitten.  That did alleviate the problem a bit,  but it is basically the same

[CROSSBOLT]

Well, sumpthin' ain't movin'  ! Actually, lubing the rollers and ramps may not be such a good idea but that is the least of your worries. Could you do another video only show both front and rear pulleys at the same time as the speed is varied?

[szabgab]

Well, sumpthin' ain't movin'  ! Actually, lubing the rollers and ramps may not be such a good idea but that is the least of your worries. Could you do another video only show both front and rear pulleys at the same time as the speed is varied?

Karl,  sorry,  I explained things wrongly,  I did not lube the ramps underneath the rollers,  but the rails the sliders move on.  I will do an another video soon,  but I'm away again for a few days,  work is taking up so much precious time )  Also the clutch chatter has gone worse,  since I cleaned the pads and sprayrd brake cleaner inside clutch body,  probably taking a shortcut I might have de-lubed vital parts

[CROSSBOLT]

Work does intrude! Being retired, I would not understand! Work if you must, we will wait....not willingly...but will wait....

[szabgab]

OK,  so I've managed to do a video of the two sides before going away...  Here it is

[CROSSBOLT]

Alright! That looks pretty good. Any of the rest of you see something out of place?

[Stig / Major Tom]

OK, I'd do this:
Remove the belt. Snug both front and rear nuts, a little.
Is there any play up/down/fore/aft in the front assembly, or in the rear?

Front shaft bearing good?......Rear shaft bearing or bearings in clutch good?

If I didn't find movement in those shafts or assemblies, I'd look at the rollers and if they are correct size and in good health (NO lube in there!) relax....it is belt slap caused by the belt.

If I really couldn't live with the belt slap, I'd try a 2nd stock Kymco belt. If that didn't help, I'd install a new clutch. @$100 for my LIKE200i, fully assembled.

Stig

[szabgab]

OK, I'd do this:
Remove the belt. Snug both front and rear nuts, a little.
Is there any play up/down/fore/aft in the front assembly, or in the rear?

Front shaft bearing good?......Rear shaft bearing or bearings in clutch good?

If I didn't find movement in those shafts or assemblies, I'd look at the rollers and if they are correct size and in good health (NO lube in there!) relax....it is belt slap caused by the belt.

If I really couldn't live with the belt slap, I'd try a 2nd stock Kymco belt. If that didn't help, I'd install a new clutch. @$100 for my LIKE200i, fully assembled.

Stig

Stig - there is some play in the front shaft, without the pulleys installed I can pull it out and push back a little, probably 1/10th of an inch or so. The rear is fine. The clutch installed, there is a definite play rolling the bell over, but as Karl mentioned before, that is absolutely normal. The rollers are OEM stock 23*18mm / 20gr rollers, brand new, installed not 50 miles ago.  I did not lube anything in the rollers area, but the inner sleeve I have cleaned today of the lithium grease I put in the other day and used some moly lube, as Karl suggested. I aslo greased the needle bearing of the clutch, it is fine, turn around without any hiccups, so is the front bearing. Funnily enough with all this hassle I start to be back at ground zero - meaning just before I touched anything in there. The clutch chatter is not much pronounced (but audible) and the front pulley belt slap is much reduced to the decel stage of a couple of seconds. I do suspect the clutch assemby, it does not close properly sometimes, and I have to twist the pulley faces in order to get them apart at the beginning stage, but then I can push them apart by a simple pushing motion, rather than the twisting. I do not have the special clutch holidng tool, or the special narrow spanner for the thin nut, I guess, I could get by with an impact tool, but I'm somewhat afraid to take that bit apart and making matters worse (that huge spring looks to be a nightmare to hold, whilst installing the thin nut without the special tool) Anybody has got a handy tip, how to diy the thing?

Oh btw, I forgot to mention, on one of the previous occasions we spoke about the clunk if the front and how soft the dampening is. Well, I have added some 0.5dl of 10W fork oil to the forks, and it changed the whole mushy crap, that was my front to a hard, but very responsive feeling. The oil smelled in there rather gross, but I do not have a large quantity of fork oil at the moment, so replacing the old stuff will have to come later.

[juancuesta]

I've owne an xciting for about two years. I can tell you that I heard those sounds and others. I beleive is quite common. I wouldnt worry about it too much.