Grabby, rough clutch

[stuo]

I have sanded the clutch pads and bells on all three of my Kymcos, which immediately cures the grabbing problem, yet the roughness slowly comes back. I don't think the pads are oil or grease contaminated, but what else could be the cause?

Suggestions?

[Stig / Major Tom]

No expert here, by any means. But owning and riding four different scooters over the past 5 years - I've had the best luck avoiding and preventing clutch troubles by not being gentle with the throttle on take offs. Being too gentle slips the clutch too much before locking up - quickly glazing the two surfaces again.
Nothing violent...just brisk throttles.
And no, that is not easy to do in slow moving heavy traffic!
Stig

[hypophthalmus]

Are you talking about low speed shuddering? As far as I know, the only solution to keep that from coming back is to avoid riding with the clutch partially engaged.

[stuo]

Thanks, Stig and Hypo. You both seem to be saying the same thing: fully engage the clutch ASAP.

I'll be a bit more aggressive on take-off and see how things go, although I've got the  "sanding the pads" routine down to about 30 minutes, so it's not a major hassle, just part of periodically dealing with an eccentricity of the scooters we love, right? It's only when I ride my Vino do I notice how smooth a CVT clutch can be. Maybe I should divorce the Vino?

[Stig / Major Tom]

Thanks, Stig and Hypo. You both seem to be saying the same thing: fully engage the clutch ASAP.

I'll be a bit more aggressive on take-off and see how things go, although I've got the  "sanding the pads" routine down to about 30 minutes, so it's not a major hassle, just part of periodically dealing with an eccentricity of the scooters we love, right? It's only when I ride my Vino do I notice how smooth a CVT clutch can be. Maybe I should divorce the Vino?

Is it the wine red Vino?
Love that scoot. Nearly bought a used one ....but for the same $ I got a LIKE200I 5 yrs ago.

Vinos are smooth, eh?
No - no divorce that one !
Stig

[stuo]

Hey, Stig,

I got the (black, darn it)) Vino in excellent cosmetic shape with 2K miles on it for $500 because it wouldn't start.  I had just bailed out of the moped hobby and into scooters for something to do. (My R1100RT rarely needs anything.)

The weird thing about the Vino was that the problem was...the float level in the carb bowl was too high. I bent the adjustment tab to lower it a smidge and she now starts and runs perfectly. The only explanation I have is that the needle valve got worn somehow and changed the level.

That little 50cc scoot is a dream around town but top speed is 38mph, says the speedo, and it's too slow off the line to feel safe in traffic. I wonder why the 50's are popular when the more powerful scoots are not much more expensive.

[PaulF]

Don't know about over there but in most states in Australia you can ride a 50cc scooter on your car licence but any engine size above that needs a bike licence so they are pretty popular for people who want cheap transport in a city.

[ophelia]

For what it's worth, I've noticed smaller bikes have smoother clutches than bigger bikes. My Bet and Win 250 was creamy smooth after a clutch deglaze compared to a Downtown 300i which always chattered. My Metropolitan was buttery smooth. I wonder if a different clutch design with more than three clutch pads and thus more individual contact surfaces would aid a smoother transition on larger bikes.

Dr. Pulley has aftermarket clutches, but I don't know how aggressive those may be.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Hey, Stig,

I got the (black, darn it)) Vino in excellent cosmetic shape with 2K miles on it for $500 because it wouldn't start.  I had just bailed out of the moped hobby and into scooters for something to do. (My R1100RT rarely needs anything.)

The weird thing about the Vino was that the problem was...the float level in the carb bowl was too high. I bent the adjustment tab to lower it a smidge and she now starts and runs perfectly. The only explanation I have is that the needle valve got worn somehow and changed the level.

That little 50cc scoot is a dream around town but top speed is 38mph, says the speedo, and it's too slow off the line to feel safe in traffic. I wonder why the 50's are popular when the more powerful scoots are not much more expensive.

I was looking at a red 125 ( I  think, did they do a 150?)
Stig

[Gnzbrg]

I was looking at a red 125 ( I  think, did they do a 150?)
Stig

My ex-wife has a Vino 125 she's had for eight years.  Rides it to work every day all year 'round.  44,000 miles of NYC traffic. Never a lick of trouble and still runs like a top.  Damn nice little bike.

[kymcogrampa]

Gnzbrg...you should have never let her go. No, not HER!!!, I mean her SCOOTER!!!

Gramps

[stuo]

I think Ophelia has the answer: the smaller, less powerful scoots have smoother clutch action probably due to less glazing of the pads.

[klaviator]

I have owned only four scooters.  Of the four only my Super 8 had any clutch problems.  The bigger scooters have all been great.  I sanded the pads and cleaned the clutch bell a couple of times.  The problem eventually came back both times but then went away and the clutch has been great for at least 15,000 miles now.  On thing that seemed to help when the clutch was having problems was to hold the brakes and give it some gas and let the clutch slip for 10 or 15 seconds.  I have seen that advice posted on other forums as well.

[hypophthalmus]

I used to have a Vino 125, until it got stolen.

It had the same kind of clutch shuddering.

I had an issue with the muffler breaking completely off halfway down the pipe. I had to pick it up from the road and drive 40 miles home. The spark plug wire would also come off randomly, until I secured it down with zip ties.

The valves were kind of a pain to check (tight spaces that you can't see, hard to get the feeler gauge in without bending it). And the oil filter wasn't accessible as far as I could tell. I can't remember if I couldn't reach it with my hands or tools, or if there wasn't enough clearance to remove it.

But it was a lot of fun to drive.

[Stig / Major Tom]

I have owned only four scooters.  Of the four only my Super 8 had any clutch problems.  The bigger scooters have all been great.  I sanded the pads and cleaned the clutch bell a couple of times.  The problem eventually came back both times but then went away and the clutch has been great for at least 15,000 miles now.  On thing that seemed to help when the clutch was having problems was to hold the brakes and give it some gas and let the clutch slip for 10 or 15 seconds.  I have seen that advice posted on other forums as well.

On the Burgman forum that is mostly seen as a temporary fix for a glazed clutch...and is a bit abusive to the CVT workings as well.
Stig