Hard starting after scooter is warmed up

[kneeslider]

The warmer plug would help in starting.

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[kymcogrampa]

The warmer plug would help in starting.

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Thanks kneeslider. I agree with you that if my plug showed too many deposits, I could go to a hotter plug and this would keep the plug cleaner, thus giving a better spark. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a hotter plug than the NGK cr7e be a cr6e?

Gramps

[kneeslider]

If I am not wrong, the higher the number the hotter the plug.

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[Stig / Major Tom]

On NGK plugs the lower number equals hotter plugs.
I'd want to try an Iridium spark plug before going to a hotter plug.
You do not change the heat range when using an Iridium plug,  this was confirmed by an email to NGK. (some said because Iridium plugs are hotter you need to change your heat range. NGK said, "No, use same heat range number")
Stig

[kymcogrampa]

Thanks Stig.

Champion plugs heat range numbers work the opposite of NGKs!

I checked my plug this morning and it has no deposits. This indicates it's not too cold.

The engine just so happened to fail last night when I went to park the scoot in for the night. It started OK and stalled out 30 seconds later. It wouldn't restart. WATCH THE PLUG CAP. IT CAN WORK ITS' WAY LOOSE!!! I went from underneath and snugged the plug cap back on tight and it started right back up.
 
Also, check that the plug is tight...mine was not tight at all!...it was not torqued properly right from factory. I only have 4000 kilometers on the bike so far.

I also vented the gas cap today...now my toy shed smells like it should...gassy!

Gramps

[CROSSBOLT]

Yea!

[kneeslider]

Oh. Ok.

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[roxyflash]

Took scooter on two errands today 85 sunny and humid.Left scooter out in full sun i intialized  the scooter then ran it.Starts right up idles better no problems  starts right back up im happy.Thanks for all the help the starter likes it also.

[CROSSBOLT]

Double yea!

[kymcogrampa]

This forum is turning out quite well, thanks to you guys...MERCI !!!

Roxy, it's good to hear that you've got such a good outcome. I'm going to initialize mine today...can't hurt! Thanks for sharing your great outcome.

Crossbolt, how often does one need to initialize?...whenever you have starting or idling  problems?...whenever the battery is disconnected?...so many questions, and yet, so much time! (I'm retired and have nothing BUT time!).

Nyuk,nyuk
Gramps

[CROSSBOLT]

The book sez any time either the TPS or the ISC are changed to initialize. Stig is the only one to replace anything like that for cause! This is one of those "no downside" procedures since it is (or should be) done at the factory and should not be required unless something fails or is replaced BUT if it is initialized, it just "resets" in exactly the same place. In other words, "It cain't hoyt!" Since  I have vented the gas cap there has been no need to initialize. It was a grasp at a straw, anyway since NO ONE, no dealer tech nor Kymco USA had a clue what was causing the problem of surging idle, hard starting, no starting, high idle speeds and whatnot. The answer was developed HERE!

[kymcogrampa]

I initialized mine today and went for a ride. I parked it in the heat and hot sun all afternoon. It started right up and ran well without a fuss. I did what I call a "shot gun effect". I did 3 known possible "fixes" all at once. Any one of those or all three worked and it doesn't really matter to me which one "fixed" it. It could be the plug cap was getting more and more loose as time went by...it could be that it needed to be initialized (I'm not totally convinced, but it can't hurt) or it could be the venting of the gas tank. I wouldn't make a very good scientist, as one shouldn't have more than one variable at a time!

No scientist,
Gramps

[kymcogrampa]

Here's what I figure happens. The C.A.R.B. emission standards requires the manufactures to capture and burn all gas fumes. The fuel tank gets hot from the warm temps and direct sun, causing great amount of vapours. These vapours are held in the intake tubing and air cleaner box until engine start up. When you first crank over the engine, it doesn't get any fresh air (oxygen), only gas and gas fumes...can't fire until all vapours have gone through the engine. It would take over a minute of solid cranking before starting unless you evacuated the vapours by holding the throttle open and still, it would take some cranking. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it! My starter and battery are now happy and thus, I'm happy.

You know what they say...Happy bike = happy life!

Do I get the Nerd of The Year award?...or maybe the Turd of The Year award?

Gramps

[CROSSBOLT]

Nerd? Nah! But some kind of wall hanger for persistence! Nothing more disturbing than all of a sudden an unexplained change in normal idle, starting, etc. Finding the fix is very daunting. The great thing about EFI in general is the consistency of all engine operations. It was once a "badge of honor" to have the starting procedure of a '49 Chevy down pat! Vary the procedure and it would NOT start! EFI got rid of that. I do not miss it at all. That vent valve in all modern IC engined machines is probably the cheapest, crummiest part among the thousands that make whatever it is. I think they all will stick because the are of cheap plastic. Anyway, you the man today!

[roxyflash]

The same thing happens with cars my wife had a nissan xterra check engine light was on turned out was the vent vavle was a pita to chenge under the rear tire inner fender well i did get it to move was stuck but didnt want to remove the fender well so i replaced it was 85 dollars.