Air, fuel, transmission, or clutch?

[Petey4]

I used to know a little about repairing vehicles before they had computer chips, variable transmissions, and fuel injection. Everything's so interconnected now it's hard to diagnose problems.

A few days ago the bike suddenly began bogging down mildly at acceleration from a stop, but otherwise seemed okay. I was suspecting air or fuel -- but it never stalled completely, even though the RPMs sounded pretty low when throttling. (Idle speed seems normal.) Yesterday I started suspecting transmission, as it began jerking a little when the RPMs would reach normal speed (at five or ten mph). Now today it's gotten noticeably worse: very similar to when you try to drive a car starting in second gear. It sputters (labors) -- but then lurches into what feels like a higher gear, and then rides smoothly. It doesn't bog down when accelerating from low coasting speeds -- I have to be accelerating from a stop or near stop.

Judging by how much worse the lurching was today I'm expecting it to become totally unreliable for commuting very soon.

I'm starting to think it might be related to past warranty work on my clutch (discussed earlier here), where they found the wrong-sized pulley or something. I still suspect the shop might have originally sold me a repaired scooter as new, even though it showed only 0.2 miles -- because they had no answer to why it would have been manufactured with an incorrectly sized part. Anyway, they replaced the tranny, the clutch, and the belt -- and I've been riding it daily without trouble for the past six months. Now I worry the belt might be shredding again. But the symptoms are different (before it was low maximum speed). And I wonder if, say, a fuel/computer problem could play havoc with the auto-shifting somehow?

It's a pain in the neck to take to the shop, so I wanted to ask around whether there are some things I can look at myself first. Plus, it's a year and a half into the warranty, and I'm not sure what's still covered.

Thanks for any ideas!

[CROSSBOLT]

The "auto shifting" or CVT is strictly mechanical with no connection to the on-board electronics. One sure-fire method to either confirm or rule out suspected TPS malfunction is find a dealer with the Kymco analyzer tool and convince him of doing a road test with the tool plugged in.

Stig, does this strike you the same?

[Petey4]

Okay, thanks, so if it's a mechanical transmission issue, what would that look like? I'm imagining something preventing the belt from settling all the way down into the variable V, effectively eliminating "first gear." But what would be mechanically causing this all of the sudden?

The shop says they can't look at it until a couple of weeks, so at this point I'm trying to guess how risky it is to ride without getting stranded. The shop recommended I do not take the box apart myself, since I may not see important clues.

[CROSSBOLT]

I doubt it is a transmission or belt problem. It sounds similar to Stig's TPS failure some years ago which was pinpointed by the analyzer. There is nothing to taking the covers off the CVT. With the covers removed, the bike on the center stand you could start, run and watch the belt do its thing. Check some YouTube videos on this. Just don't tighten those little screws too much when you put the covers back on! By the way, that shop COULD plug the analyzer in and prove/disprove the TPS in less than 5 minutes if you took the battery cover off for them.

[Petey4]

Thanks for the encouragement, Crossbolt. I took the cover off and found a pretty thick coating of fine black powder throughout, which I assume is belt residue. Now, is this normal, or is this a big clue? Seems like a lot of powder. Of course I can't replicate the problem on the stand without load, but I did notice the belt flapping a bit whenever decelerating -- even clanking or tapping against something for a second. Maybe this is normal too?

Unrelated: I've looked into the forum profile settings but can't figure out to keep it from logging me out every so-and-so minutes. Can someone steer me in the right direction?

[Stig / Major Tom]

OK Texas, All good points made here.

But, I'm going to start with some basics.
This will require removing the battery cover (3 screws and pop it up) and the underseat bucket and the front lower panel after the batt. cover is off..
Working with the cyclepedia trouble shooting pages open before me....

1) Please check that the battery terminals are snug.
2) With the center cover and underseat bucket removed, check that the spark plug is not loose, AND that the spark plug cap is snug on top of the spark plug. Don't over-tighten that little plug!

Loose battery terminals, loose plugs and loose caps have caused stumbles and intermittent running issues.....and are easy to fix!

Another less likely culprit is a pinched breather hose for the gas tank. It is the by the lower red arrow here. FOLLOW it from the tank neck as far as you can and see that it is not pinched closed as it nears the side body. Make certain it is open and free to breath.


Please note that your warranty is such: first 365 days - all parts & labor are covered
For 540 days Engine parts, electrical parts and labor are covered.
For 730 days engine parts and labor are covered.

Please give a description of year of manufacture, mileage, service history. Modifications.
It is not known for the Throttle Position Sensor to fail on any but the 2011/2012 LIKE200i models.

Hang in there - we'll get this sorted so you can have a reliable ride once again!

Black dust and belt flapping are normal.
Are you getting any light codes blinking on the dash when you turn on the key, but do not start?
Stig

[Petey4]

Thanks Stig! I'll go through your troubleshooting tips when I get a few minutes tomorrow.

I see when I turn the key on, and leave it for a few seconds (after the normal red light), it then blinks red six times. I have no idea if it's always done this since I always start it quickly. Is this normal? The six-blink-cycle keeps repeating until I turn the key again.

[CROSSBOLT]

There ya go! Stig is one of the good guys but with pictures, too!

[Jonnielights]

Hey Petey,

So the 6 blinks represent TPS, I had the same warning on my like and noticed similar performance issues, then the warning stopped presenting.

For what it's worth, I am beginning to suspect my Like 200i is a 2015 despite the dealer selling it to me as a 2016 though the title reflects the dealer's model year.

The reason for my suspicion is that from what I can find out, my color scheme (gold/black stripe) was only made for the 2015 model year to celebrate KYMCO's 50th year.

That said, I have noticed similar issues at a similar millage or maybe a bit higher.  My warning went away, but now it's has left a bit of a ghost in my mind.

It woulden't hurt to have the dealer check it out if it's still under warranty.

I would also suggest taking Stig up on his suggestions, he has been very helpful in educating me on my Like.

Good Luck and keep us posted,

Jon

[Stig / Major Tom]

Hey Petey,

So the 6 blinks represent TPS, I had the same warning on my like and noticed similar performance issues, then the warning stopped presenting.

For what it's worth, I am beginning to suspect my Like 200i is a 2015 despite the dealer selling it to me as a 2016 though the title reflects the dealer's model year.

The reason for my suspicion is that from what I can find out, my color scheme (gold/black stripe) was only made for the 2015 model year to celebrate KYMCO's 50th year.

That said, I have noticed similar issues at a similar millage or maybe a bit higher.  My warning went away, but now it's has left a bit of a ghost in my mind.

It woulden't hurt to have the dealer check it out if it's still under warranty.

I would also suggest taking Stig up on his suggestions, he has been very helpful in educating me on my Like.

Good Luck and keep us posted,

Jon

Jon, your manufacture date (scoot's  Birth Date) is on a silver tag, under right side body panel, above muffler. Need flash light and lay on floor to see it. It's on the frame.
Yeah, my "2013" scooter was made May 2012.
Stig

[Petey4]

Jonnielights, interesting -- mine is also a gold anniversary special. It's a 2015 that had been sitting unsold until I bought it in January of 2017. No mods, except the seat, mirror extenders, and removing the air intake limiter. Oh also an iridium plug. I've serviced it regularly. Now with 3400 miles I've changed the oil four times, and the gear oil twice. Checked valve clearance twice without adjusting.

So are you saying you had similar laboring and then lurching from a stop, related to your TPS warning -- and then the problem gradually went away when the warning went away?

After my clutch/belt/transmission problems were fixed this past January it's been running great, except for a couple of annoying occasional symptoms: some sort of apparent vacuum problem that causes fuel to overflow -- always when I overfill the tank even slightly, but also sometimes at low and medium fuel levels. Could be weather related, but I've yet to decipher a clear pattern. The other symptom is very common: the starter often snags at first attempt, but then kicks in. Never left me stranded, so I've not yet looked into the brake switch (but I have checked solenoid connections, battery, and ground).

I commute daily about 20 miles. This latest trouble showed up suddenly Monday morning, but went pretty quickly from subtle to lurching. I'll try to troubleshoot more later today. Thanks for all the tips.

[hypophthalmus]

I only skimmed the thread, but I agree the symptoms do sound very much like a dead spot in the TPS to me. The bad spot on it probably wore down more to the point where it's lurching now.

If that's right, the computer thinks you snapped the throttle closed and cuts off fuel until it figures out that it's running really lean.

Hopefully the Kymco analyzer tool (if you can find someone who has one) will show you a graph of the TPS output voltage, and you should see a drop once you hit the bad spot. Or you might be able to see the voltage drop on a multimeter.

[CROSSBOLT]

The 6 blinks confirm the TPS is out of range thanks to jonnielights so Kymco analyzer not really needed. This should be enough for the dealer if your machine is still in warranty which it should be since you bought it in 2017.

[Petey4]

Interesting. I'll have to read up on how the TPS works. But I think I'll call it a victory and take her to the shop when they can fit her in. Thanks guys!

[Jonnielights]

Yeah, me too! 

It's just funny how both my warning symptoms and the problem have gone away, not far after 4000 miles.

I also bought mine in 2017, May, and just had it in to the dealer's shop last week for a tire change.  I thought about having them take a look with the KYMCO analyzer, but they were so slammed and it had to be a hundred degrees in that garage, still got my tires changed within 4 hours.  Since the problem had gone away I didn't have the heart to ask them under those conditions.

Probably I should have, right?

Jon