Air, fuel, transmission, or clutch?

[Jonnielights]

And to relate some of my experiences to your questions:

The lurching and laboring from a stop that I experienced seem absolutely in-line with what you have been experiencing, but I just kinda chalked it up to clutch glazing.

Driving in New York is really hard on the throttle, it's all over the place all the time. But after one gig (theatrical lighting electrician) I did, that took me on average about 6 miles at full open to 3/4 throttle on the highway, (twice a day) sans slow lane splitting for about 14 days straight, the message and issues seemed to disappear, despite the fact that I probably did 4 miles in the city proper every day.

Also, I must admit I don't know when the message started to present, at first I didn't even recognize the fact the LED on the dash was showing an error message, naturally I thought it just blinking till I started the bike, silly me.

As for the starting issues you have had, I have not experienced them. Only once since I have owned the bike, a few weeks ago did I fear the bike would not start. Took me about 20min, after a long day at work and very late at night. Turns out, to quote Karl, my "puke tube" (crank case breather tube) was full of crud.  Drained it the next day and the bike was running better then ever.

I also haven't had any real issue with overfilling the fuel tank, and as far as weather, I dove all winter long with no trouble, so I don't believe that seasonality is a factor in this problem.

That said, something does seem fishy with the TPS on this model, please keep me posted and I'll do the same.

Seems like we might have to love our Golden Like's together on this one; before our warranty's run out.

Jon

[Stig / Major Tom]

Most of this is still a puzzle to me.
In no particular orfer:
Since a capped puke tube does breathe, how did draining it improve anything? It would have to be flooded clear back & filling the airbox!
Previous TPS failures were characterized by stumbles when attempting to cruise at a steady speed - often @ 25~35mph
I had a bad TPS....idle, starts, high speed cruises were perfect. Bad stumbles at 25mph.
I think only the 2011~2013 LIKE200i models were suspect. And only a small % of them.
I know of 3 LIKE200i's which are displaying code 16's (one long, 6 shorts. engine temp sensor) and each run perfectly. Non of the reset procedures cleared the code on any of these 3 scoots.

EFI uses hands-off starting. Touch nothing but the key..99% of the time.
EFI likes healthy batteries. Not sort of healthy batteries.
Overfilling tank causes problems.
Nobody in the USA is getting bad gas any longer. Running/starting Issues? It's not the gas. In-tank filter is adequately protecting the injector.

All above are just my thoughts.
Wish we could rule out the clutch behavior as causing the jerking.
Clutch nor puke tube can cause hard starting IMHO.

Still a puzzle to me ....frusrtating to suss from afar!

Stig

[Petey4]

I'll definitely update as I learn more. Now I'm hoping my lurching does not improve before the shop can take a look. I suspect my intermittent starter problem is separate -- it's been doing that since the beginning (but, of course, never replicated at the shop). The tank overflow is my last concern, but it is weird, since I haven't heard of others having problems except when overfilling. I did wonder if somehow that and the starter problem might be somehow related to a fuel pump issue -- maybe chip-related. Time will tell, hopefully.

[Jonnielights]

Hey Stig,

For the TPS, I don't know much about it and really haven't had time to do in-depth reading on the matter, I have been doing 12-18 hour days for weeks so I don't tend to try and learn so much in such work cycles.

As for the one long six short, my scoot always displays one long when I turn the key to on, so if that is to be considered part of the error message, then it might be a temp sensor, but the six short  have defiantly gone away, I watch it with some regularity now.

Based on what I have read in this forum, I thought my symptoms to be clutch glazing, and that also makes a lot of sense considering how I have to ride in nyc.  I thought perhaps that high RPM for 20 or so miles a day and for 2 weeks straight, might have the effect of clearing the glaze, but I must admit I'm ignorant on if this is a plausible explanation.

That said, the timeline of when I noticed the six short was not long before that work cycle and the bike was showing the symptoms I mentioned in my previous post, but soon after they stopped.

Two days after my accident, referred to in my post "So the Like and I went down last night (were both ok)" I thought I was going to have to call a tow truck at 5am after a good 20-30min of trying to get it to start; sputtering, running really rough and dying with even slight throttle but I finally got it to catch. It still ran rougher then normal, but I was confident after the first half mile that I was going to make it the 8 more home.  I had purchased fuel on the way to work that day, it was not raining.

Next morning, first thing I did was drain the puke tube, seemed about full of oil, plus it contained what seemed like a bright orange sediment and something heavier then the oil. The oil was fairly clean as I had changed it just a few days prior.

Started it up after draining and it was just like it had always been.

I don't know if any of this helps you to understand, because I certainly don't, but ever since my scoot has been running great, I still get one long when I initially turn the key, but no more six short.

Jon

[Stig / Major Tom]

As we say in the pack mule rental business,  " if she goes today, don't foolwid-it!"
I wonder if the tip over sensor was disturbed enough in your 'off' to make for hard starting for a time thereafter? It is supposed to shut things down and deploy the drogue 'chute when you go over a cliff, according to my translated owner's manual.

And, yeah, no - high speeds won't usually clean off the clutch pad glazing - since it occurs during pull-away slipping before the clutch locks into drive. Light sanding of the pads and green scrubby to the bell...gets you back to orig. surfaces. City riding makes it tough to avoid glazing....some have good luck by giving it brisk throttle as you pull away...to limit clutch slip & get it locked sooner rather than later.
Burgmans are bad for glazing. My LIKE is butter smooth but I don't commute to work through the city now, after my indictment,😊
Stig

[Petey4]

Seeking advice after a few new clues. (Still waiting on the shop to schedule an appointment.)

After a full week of lurching, acceleration has smoothed out -- but I'm still getting the six red lights. Just as the problem developed gradually over a couple of days, it went away gradually. But I'm pretty confident the ride is not the same as before. It feels and sounds like it's geared slightly higher at all speeds. So, while it's got the same overall power, the pickup is a little more slow. Instead of feeling like I'm trying to take off in second gear (as when it was lurching), it's more like I'm trying to take off in first gear but babying the gas a little.

I don't mind this performance; my concern is getting any problems addressed before January, when the warranty runs out. Especially since I'm still getting the warning signal.

Also, a couple curious things that may or may not be related. I had always felt a subtle RPM dip when applying the left brake (at a stop), but now the dip sounds more noticeable. Actually, I'm not sure if it's really an RPM dip (I don't have a tachometer), but it sounds like it's dipping from, say, 800 to 600 when applying the brake. Not so low that I'm afraid it's going to die, but getting pretty rumbly.

Another thing I was eager to show the shop was the starter-catching problem I described earlier. It never happened regularly enough for them to witness it, but last week it was doing it almost all the time -- so I thought, great, they'll be able to see it when I bring it in. But now that the acceleration has smoothed out, the starter is no longer catching regularly. Is this just coincidence, or can anyone see a possible connection?

I see there's a method for resetting the TPS, but I'm reluctant to try it, since currently the TPS warning is the only problem I can point the shop to. Maybe, like Jonnielights, the warning will reset on its own someday.

I noticed a similar thread from another anniversary-edition owner (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=14741.0). Now with at least three of us suffering a seemingly related problem I'm getting suspicious about this gold version.

So mainly I'm looking for opinions on whether to keep pursuing the cause of my nearly unrideable week, or just shrug and be happy it's smoothing out?

[Stig / Major Tom]

A LIKE200i idles at @1850 rpm.
Holding the rear brake at idle routes engine vibes into the frame (felt in your butt and hands), common to all scooters I think.
The LIKE200i does not appreciate being over filled at the pump....perhaps your scoot's vent lines have cleared after some evaporation?

Hope you do follow up with the dealer servicing while under warranty. ...though not certain they will open at no cost, the CVT to explore your concerns with the "gearing". Unless their scooter guy feels an issue in his test ride.8

Perhaps there IS an issue with the 2015's ECU's....or we're somehow overthinking this thing?
Been there done that. ..with trying to have dealer experience the issues I was getting with the TPS. Can be frustrating...
The good news is, that once I got that sorted - the scoot has been rock solid for the past 4 years and 10000 miles!
Thanks for your updates.
Keep us posted.
Stig

[Jonnielights]

At this point I am just "shrouding and being happy".  My scoot has been running well of late and I beat the hell out of it. No more more error code, and smooth operation, so I'm just going to go with it for now.

[Stig / Major Tom]

At this point I am just "shrouding and being happy".  My scoot has been running well of late and I beat the hell out of it. No more more error code, and smooth operation, so I'm just going to go with it for now.

There you go....!
(I couldn't really imagine that there was an issue with the 2015 ECU's)
Stig

[big blue]

I don't know if you knew Stig but the newer version of the throttle body does NOT have an inlet for the drain hose from the charcoal canister. When I replaced my intake throttle I did not know what to do with the drain so I called the customer service folks at Kymco. They told me to just direct it down to the ground and there it has been since with no ill effects and I have never seen any gas spilling from the tube!

[Petey4]

I witnessed my error code resetting itself the other day: instead of the normal cycle of six blinks, it started with one longer blink, then six shorter. It repeated this cycle about three or four times, and then stopped blinking entirely. Since then it has sent no error message.

Stig, if there's a connection with the overflowing fuel, it's not because of an overfilled tank. I only made that mistake once, in February of 2017. But, as I've mentioned, the fuel has periodically overflowed when the tank has been near-empty, near-full, and mid-full -- so something is different in my case. No idea if there's a connection between this monthly (or so) event and the recent lurching with TPS error. The bike has never been on its side.

It's now running pretty smoothly, but there's definitely slightly more bogging at acceleration from a stop than before the problem. Nothing serious, but notable. I seem to be getting about five mpg better than usual too (from 62-ish to 67-ish).

The shop never set up the promised appointment -- maybe they suspected the lurching might fix itself. So I guess I'll follow Jonnielights' lead and see what happens. There's nothing I can point them toward now that would register as a clear symptom. Will be interesting to see if the overflowing issue returns now that the error code has disappeared.

[Stig / Major Tom]

I witnessed my error code resetting itself the other day: instead of the normal cycle of six blinks, it started with one longer blink, then six shorter. It repeated this cycle about three or four times, and then stopped blinking entirely. Since then it has sent no error message.

Stig, if there's a connection with the overflowing fuel, it's not because of an overfilled tank. I only made that mistake once, in February of 2017. But, as I've mentioned, the fuel has periodically overflowed when the tank has been near-empty, near-full, and mid-full -- so something is different in my case. No idea if there's a connection between this monthly (or so) event and the recent lurching with TPS error. The bike has never been on its side.

It's now running pretty smoothly, but there's definitely slightly more bogging at acceleration from a stop than before the problem. Nothing serious, but notable. I seem to be getting about five mpg better than usual too (from 62-ish to 67-ish).

The shop never set up the promised appointment -- maybe they suspected the lurching might fix itself. So I guess I'll follow Jonnielights' lead and see what happens. There's nothing I can point them toward now that would register as a clear symptom. Will be interesting to see if the overflowing issue returns now that the error code has disappeared.

Petey,
Please call and make an appointment with a Kymco dealer.

For discussion - While you're waiting to go in for that scheduled appointment --- yeah, #16 is engine temp sensor.....

But the overflowing "nearly empty gas tank' is a puzzle. Surely it is not overflowing from under the cap, or from the tiny over-flow hole found a half inch below the cap?? I mean how does a quart of gas get up there to overflow?

When it overflows you are finding gas under the scooter?
 If so, and your tank is nearly empty, it must be a leak from the fuel line, yes? Heat build up in the tank - pressurizing the tank and it's fuel lines - leaking from the line or where it connects? Or it leaks while you're running the engine? A puzzle.

Plus you are finding issues with the CVT which propels your scooter, but improving gas mileage?

Frankly - for my limited knowledge, you present too many issues, which come and go - there is too much distance between your scooter and my desk to sort this ….out. One would need to look at your maintenance performed to date, mileage, listen to the engine, ride the scoot, etc., etc.


The possibility that one or both of us is overthinking all of this is too great to sort from a distance.


Please take the scooter to any Kymco dealer while your warranty is in effect.


Stig
 

[Petey4]

yeah, I've been assuming the occasional overflow is a vacuum problem, but maybe that's not possible. When it happens I'm usually at a red light and smell gas -- then I look down and see dripping from what I thought was the overflow tube. It's only done it a few times when the tank was half-full, and once when nearly empty. Mostly it happens when near full, but I never fill past top of bar. I have seen wetness around the gas cap when it overflows.

I'll definitely keep y'all posted if/when I learn more. But bringing to the shop is too much trouble when there are no reliable symptoms or error codes. I do want to find out whether they have an official diagnostic tool though. Maybe they can plug it in while I wait.

I'm guessing my gas mileage may have increased because the TPS is now reset, so it's running a bit lower RPM overall. Will be interesting to see if the reset eliminates the gas overflow. I wouldn't be surprised if it's all somehow connected electronically.

I'm also guessing the CVT is fine -- that the recent problem has been entirely chip related. I was suspicious of the CVT system only because it had been bad at first, but since they replaced everything it's been running smooth (until the lurching started).

[Petey4]

Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for answers -- but I finally have a service appointment scheduled for Friday (and the shop does have a Kymco diagnostic tool). The six-blink alert is back, but now I'm pretty agnostic about whether the problem is more throttle-related or transmission-related. The lurching has never gotten as bad again as it was during the first week, but it's still annoying. Weirdly, it gets a bit better after the first five minutes or so of riding.

Stig, I don't recommend overthinking my particular bike, as it's clearly something of a lemon. I still get the occasional overflowing around the gas cap, unrelated to how much fuel is in the tank. I still get the occasional stalling of the starter. And I still have been given no answer to the question of why an incorrectly sized part was in the tranny pulley system when the bike was supposedly brand new.

Until we learn more I might advise others to think twice before buying one of these 2015 anniversary editions.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for answers -- but I finally have a service appointment scheduled for Friday (and the shop does have a Kymco diagnostic tool). The six-blink alert is back, but now I'm pretty agnostic about whether the problem is more throttle-related or transmission-related. The lurching has never gotten as bad again as it was during the first week, but it's still annoying. Weirdly, it gets a bit better after the first five minutes or so of riding.

Stig, I don't recommend overthinking my particular bike, as it's clearly something of a lemon. I still get the occasional overflowing around the gas cap, unrelated to how much fuel is in the tank. I still get the occasional stalling of the starter. And I still have been given no answer to the question of why an incorrectly sized part was in the tranny pulley system when the bike was supposedly brand new.

Until we learn more I might advise others to think twice before buying one of these 2015 anniversary editions.

I reread every one of your posts.
I have thoughts about each of the many issues you, and others, have found with the 2015 LIKE200i's.

Gas leaking in the area of a well fitting gas cap - from a partially empty tank - is the one which stumps me. Gas on the ground is one thing....but gas around the undamaged lid ?... some kind of science is going on there which I don't understand.


Please keep us in the loop!
Stig

sorry, can't resist: slight "stalling" of the starter is well documented.....and disappeared when I installed a new, stronger,  battery.