Author Topic: Finally!  (Read 1500 times)

Clampett

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2018, 11:55:24 PM »
I was pondering the same thing Stig. I re-read the Chap 5 with the pictures and looked at the bike again. ET has the PDF so I'm assuming he did it correct.
But others (myself included) have made mistakes even with photos. But I don't see another bolt that could take that oil and not have signs of something wrong.
I wasn't ignoring, I've just been trying to go over the whole thing again to see what the problem is/could be. I had a similar incident as a teen when I replaced the oil in my auto with 5 quarts of oil and nothing showed on the stick. I had forgot to replace the drain bolt. But in this case, it would have been immediately noticeable.
Yep, told that one on myself.

As to my results, ET. When I filled the same amount back in that I took out, I got my little light and could see the oil inside the bolt hole/filler hole. It was just below the bolt hole, so I buttoned it up.

leomagnus

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2018, 02:28:07 AM »
ET, I just ordered an oil filter and an air filter. They came in within 6 days. I am not sure why your dealer takes so long to get them. Maybe my dealer buys them out of the back of a white van with blacked out windows... ;D. Nonetheless, I am happy that you finally got your stuff. It might be a good idea to stock up over the winter on oil filters and maybe an air filter so you don't have to wait so long. Also make sure that you get the aluminum washers(gaskets) for the drain plug. You can call my dealer Razee's and ask them where they get their parts from...ask for parts department.


Razee Motorcycle Center
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Rome, Italy
'97 Honda SH50
'98 Aprilia SR50
'01 Gilera Runner 180
'05 Honda SH150
I have minor knowledge on basic maintenance based of many conversations with scooter mechanics in Rome, Italy.

Warwick, RI, USA
'12 Kymco People GTi 300
'18 Kymco Xciting 400i ABS
'22 Kymco AK550 ABS

EvilTessmacher

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2018, 02:29:39 AM »
Stig: I admire your thoroughness, and your perspicacity, but no, there's no chance I could have filled the wrong hole. There are only two bolts accessible on the outer case of the transmission. One parallel to the ground facing to the rear of the bike, and one perpendicular to the ground, facing the ground. The first is the fill hole, the second is the drain hole. And on top of that, the service manual photo matches what the physical condition of the bike is. A rarity, I know, but it did. So I don't know.

Clampett: Yes, I did in fact replace the drain bolt before I added back the massively odorous gear oil. I wanted to make sure I did that, lest I screw something up. As before, I checked, and re-checked every step on the list in the manual, and rechecked again with the physical condition of the bike.

I have a 2000cc syringe (200ml) that I used, and I did two sets of 100ml fills. It's possible that 5-7ml remained in the nose of the syringe, but I did not visually check it with a light. I most certainly will do that in the AM.
I rode Diana to work and back this evening, and she was just as responsive and quiet as she ever was, and I listened carefully for any odd noises or out of place vibrations and the like, and she seemed just as good if not better. I parked her on top of a piece of cardboard, and will see if there are any leaks in the morning. I hope not.
Karl: I have no knowledge of this "American differential fill method" you mention. All I know is, I followed the specifications in the manual exactly. I would appreciate the benefit of your knowledge base regarding this American method.

Here's the page of the Service Manual which describes the fill procedure. What you see in the image, is exactly what I did.-

Two things to consider...
1) The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse always gets the cheese.
2) Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines.

---
2018 Kymco 400i - "Diana"
2013 Honda PCX - "Natasha"
1982 Honda PA-50

EvilTessmacher

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2018, 02:48:49 PM »
Whining about getting old is not allowed!

I wholeheartedly agree!
Two things to consider...
1) The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse always gets the cheese.
2) Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines.

---
2018 Kymco 400i - "Diana"
2013 Honda PCX - "Natasha"
1982 Honda PA-50

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2018, 03:08:03 PM »
The "American Differential Method" is fill 'till it runs back out the fill hole! Your screen of the service manual is great! The gearbox is just like all the rest from 50 cc to 300 cc. The fill hole is about even with the output shaft/wheel axle height. The quantity is about the same as the 300 cc. I suspect the service direction is wrong. WRONG!! Drain her out, put 200 cc back in and check. Since you already put 200 ml/cc back in all you have to do is check. Bet it won't run back out! By the way, this won't be the only thing wrong in Kymco owners/service manuals! Stig needs to start a column just for Kymco tech errors!
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

EvilTessmacher

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2018, 04:39:37 PM »
The "American Differential Method" is fill 'till it runs back out the fill hole! Your screen of the service manual is great! The gearbox is just like all the rest from 50 cc to 300 cc. The fill hole is about even with the output shaft/wheel axle height. The quantity is about the same as the 300 cc. I suspect the service direction is wrong. WRONG!! Drain her out, put 200 cc back in and check. Since you already put 200 ml/cc back in all you have to do is check. Bet it won't run back out! By the way, this won't be the only thing wrong in Kymco owners/service manuals! Stig needs to start a column just for Kymco tech errors!

So, if (since?) this is wrong, I should go out and put more oil in until it runs out?
Two things to consider...
1) The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse always gets the cheese.
2) Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines.

---
2018 Kymco 400i - "Diana"
2013 Honda PCX - "Natasha"
1982 Honda PA-50

Louder North

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2018, 04:46:52 PM »
The "American Differential Method" is fill 'till it runs back out the fill hole! Your screen of the service manual is great! The gearbox is just like all the rest from 50 cc to 300 cc. The fill hole is about even with the output shaft/wheel axle height. The quantity is about the same as the 300 cc. I suspect the service direction is wrong. WRONG!! Drain her out, put 200 cc back in and check. Since you already put 200 ml/cc back in all you have to do is check. Bet it won't run back out! By the way, this won't be the only thing wrong in Kymco owners/service manuals! Stig needs to start a column just for Kymco tech errors!

The amount you put in is dependent on the model isn't it?

On the Yager, if you fill it up the final drive to the 'fill' hole, as you ride it, it overflows into the airbox and leaks out onto the floor. 
2009 Kymco Frost (aka Yager 200i)
10,000 km
bought used in 2018
2007 Aprilia SR50 (Morini motor)
2013 Aprilia SR50 (Piaggio motor)
1986 BMW R80

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2018, 05:04:50 PM »
Like louder said, use 200 ml and NOT til it runs out. Or you will have 90 weight everywhere! Conflicting info.
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

EvilTessmacher

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2018, 09:50:03 PM »
Like louder said, use 200 ml and NOT til it runs out. Or you will have 90 weight everywhere! Conflicting info.

That conflicting info is why I asked. I don't have any leaks from anywhere, and the puke tube is still empty. 

Next step, visually inspect the level with a Clampett Light.

Two things to consider...
1) The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse always gets the cheese.
2) Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines.

---
2018 Kymco 400i - "Diana"
2013 Honda PCX - "Natasha"
1982 Honda PA-50

stuo

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2018, 06:41:50 PM »
I have the same question that Stig just asked: Could you be putting it in the wrong hole? Harumph.
2009 GV 250

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2018, 10:26:21 PM »
Nah, he put a picture of the right bolt. ALL my Kymco's were like this, 180 to 200 ml just covers the bottom of the gearbox and you cannot see the surface of the oil through the fill hole. He got the right hole. The stupid instructions conflict with the stated quantity. They forgot one word! ET thinks Kymco knows how to write service manuals! Hey, ET! You still there? 200 ml will work!
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

EvilTessmacher

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2018, 11:12:08 AM »
Nah, he put a picture of the right bolt. ALL my Kymco's were like this, 180 to 200 ml just covers the bottom of the gearbox and you cannot see the surface of the oil through the fill hole. He got the right hole. The stupid instructions conflict with the stated quantity. They forgot one word! ET thinks Kymco knows how to write service manuals! Hey, ET! You still there? 200 ml will work!

Yes, I used the right bolt. I am not an idiot, in spite of my inability to understand the printed word and expecting it to be valid.

This is clearly a case where my sense of factualism, idealism, and the absolute black/white nature of right and wrong comes into conflict with the physical world. If they manufactured the dang thing, then their engineers should know better than anyone else. Either they do, and the item is trustworthy, or they don't, and it isn't. And that's how it is. No amount of hedging, dissimulation, obfuscation, temporizing, or ambiguity should or can change that.

As George Carlin once said, "Things either are, or they aren't. Take the word 'inflammable' for instance. Either the thing flams, or it doesn't flam. If it flams, then it's flammable. If it doesn't flam, then it's inflammable. Let's have some !@#%*& consistency in the world!" I happen to agree.

This maddeningly imprecise information directly from those who do and should know best, is unacceptable to those of us who demand accuracy and expect precision. And no amount of "yeah, but" will ever change it. For the first time, I am beginning to regret my choice. I should have waited for another TMax that fit my requirements to come along.
Two things to consider...
1) The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse always gets the cheese.
2) Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines.

---
2018 Kymco 400i - "Diana"
2013 Honda PCX - "Natasha"
1982 Honda PA-50

AlexisStarlyn

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2018, 12:41:48 PM »
This is all quite strange for me, as ~250 ml nearly makes mine over flow!
I wonder what the difference is!


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jeeves

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2018, 01:31:26 PM »


That conflicting info is why I asked. I don't have any leaks from anywhere, and the puke tube is still empty. 

Next step, visually inspect the level with a Clampett Light.

On my scoot the excess gear oil will show up in the air filter housing, not the puke tube.
But they are not the same scoots so this may be different on yours.
Agility City 125

leomagnus

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Re: Finally!
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2018, 04:23:46 PM »
ET,

I put in around .21 liters of gear oil on my 300GTI and on my 400i. They have the same gear oil volume measurements. I use a 60ml syringe that I got at CVS. So I use 3 and 1/2 half shots of gear oil and I am good to go. I never had any gear issues on the 300 GTI which I have ridden for the past 6 years.

Anything close to .21 Liters will be fine. I talked to a mechanic who told me that having too much gear is worse than a little less.

Dean
Rome, Italy
'97 Honda SH50
'98 Aprilia SR50
'01 Gilera Runner 180
'05 Honda SH150
I have minor knowledge on basic maintenance based of many conversations with scooter mechanics in Rome, Italy.

Warwick, RI, USA
'12 Kymco People GTi 300
'18 Kymco Xciting 400i ABS
'22 Kymco AK550 ABS

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