Author Topic: Batteries and how long they should last  (Read 11249 times)

Carol

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Batteries and how long they should last
« on: August 18, 2010, 10:35:27 PM »
 ???

 Just recharged the battery again.
Is it normal to have to recharge a battery everyother week?
Glad my car isn't like the scooter, I would lose what little mind I have left!

Carol
Crosby, MN
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body. But rather to skid in broadside , thoroughly used up , totally worn out and loudly proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!!"

art

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2010, 10:42:53 PM »
 It's not on a car but seems to be normal on the scooters after some time.  I did see an optima battery for a 150 honda elite once but probably cost a $100+ and is still running to this day. I should of kept that one  ;)
Kymco peoples too many ;) I'm not an expert just a full time hobbiest.

wordslinger

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2010, 10:47:33 PM »
..a scoot's battery should generally last about 2 yrs...

..estimate...

..they never oem the BEST batteries...

..at least in my experience...
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

axy

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2010, 07:49:58 AM »
???

 Just recharged the battery again.
Is it normal to have to recharge a battery everyother week?
Glad my car isn't like the scooter, I would lose what little mind I have left!

Carol
Crosby, MN

It is not normal.
Buy a new battery.

Even if your scoot is not used for several weeks, you should be able to push the button and go without any problems.
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winginman

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2010, 01:14:25 PM »
I think that depends on the size of the scoot and battery.  Everyone I know with smaller scoots seem to have much shorter life on batteries.  Probably due to the barely adequate charging systems and small battery.  In the maxi scoots they seem to last much longer.  I have an Aprilia S500 that is an 04 and OEM battery is still working just fine.  It gets ridden a lot and battery gets put on a tender in winter if not used for more than two weeks.  My 09 Xciting 500 is on OEM battery and is about a year and a half old.  We will see how it holds up.  But it gets used almost daily and rides are long enough to keep battery topped off.  My best advice is to use the scoot and ride it long enough to keep the battery charged.  I have noticed a lot of around town riding and shutting off and restarting scoot will wear on battery.  Watch your headlight, when at idle you are not even keeping up with the drain of the lights.  Get it out on the road, enjoy the ride and charge the battery at the same time... :)  If this is not possible put a charging plug on it and buy a cheap battery tender from Harbor Freight ($15 on sale) and plug it in when not in use to keep it topped off.
Jim
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axy

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2010, 01:41:17 PM »
I think that depends on the size of the scoot and battery.  Everyone I know with smaller scoots seem to have much shorter life on batteries.  

Nowadays batteries last much shorter time than in the past and it does not have much to do with size of the battery.

20 or 25 yrs ago, your average car battery had a life span anywhere between 5-6 and 10 years, if properly maintained.
Today, pretty much all batteries, for cars or bikes die after (roughly) 3rd year and very often you might have problems with a battery even after one or two years, still under warranty.

We could discuss why is that so, but I do not think this is by pure chance or coincidence, instead, I think it is by design.

The biggest fraud are so called "maintenance free" batteries, that are in fact regular lead-sulphuric acid batteries, it is just that clever manufacturers removed the transparent windows with LOW and HI marks and declared them as "maintenance free".
Of course, after 12-18 months, the battery dries up and is usually irreversibly dead.

For example, Agility 125 2008 is shipped with "maintenance free" battery, that is in fact a fraud, because it is not a gel battery, but regular lead battery, just in black plastic casing, usually reserved for real maintenance free accus. It even has caps on the top for water refill! Yet, even the manual states it is maintenance free and not to fill it with water/acid!!!

Smaller batteries are more prone to failures because they heat up just as much as "big" batteries, but contain much less electrolyte, and when they dry up which happens sooner than with big batteries, the battery cannot be revived anymore, at least not under amateurish conditions.

My scoots (A125 is Jan 2008, P250S is Jan 2009) have OEM batteries.

I might go on and on about this but will skip the rant this time...
« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 01:47:35 PM by axy »
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Agent Bob

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2010, 11:27:31 PM »
I've read that battery life has a lot to do with how a new battery is charged before it is put into service. Too fast is bad, slow is good.

jprestonian

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2010, 11:36:55 PM »
New battery prep: Lead/Acid batteries are shipped new without the acid in the battery. That's good. If it's prepped right before you buy it, it'll last longer, being "fresher."

When prepping a battery, the acid should be added, and allowed to sit in the battery cells for about 45 minutes before charging. Then, charging for 60-90 minutes at 2A should provide a good, healthy battery.

What surprises me is how often people think "riding regularly" means for a scooter. When I say that, I mean, "Do you ride it three times a week, 20 minutes each time, minimum?" Less riding than that, I consider the scooter to be a "light use" scooter, and recommend a trickle charger, and special care with the fuel/carb.
.

wordslinger

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2010, 11:57:41 PM »
..regular for me is 35+ miles every day....

 ;D
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

axy

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2010, 08:15:41 AM »
..regular for me is 35+ miles every day....

 ;D

30 kms every day in the year. :)
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OldGuy

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2010, 02:08:40 PM »
Since I worked in the automotive electrical field for several years here's a subject that I can address with some authority.

First, let's discuss the function of the battery in any vehicle. It has only one purpose. To provide sufficient energy to start the vehicle! (Okay, before someone calls me on it, in modern vehicles it retains the memory in the computer. The amount of current needed for this task is so minuet that we can ignore it.) Once the vehicle is running the battery should just be sitting there getting recharged by the current left over from the tasks of operating the machine. All of the lights, the horn, the radio, the cell phone recharger, the nav system etc. should be powered by the charging system. Unfortunately, particularly on scooters the charging system has very little left for recharging the battery. If you've accessorized your scoot you may have problems. I once had a customer who complained that the battery kept dying in his car. The reason? He had installed a super whizzbang stereo with two humongous amplifiers in the trunk that drew, by themselves 105 amps against a 90 amp alternator. ::)

There are several things that affect battery life. The primary one is weather. Vehicle batteries do not like extremes, hot or cold. Another is how it's used. If you take only short trips, 20 minutes or less you may not be fully recharging your battery before asking it to do it's job (i.e. start your scoot) again.

Another factor is maintenance. Are the terminals clean, properly fitted and tight? What about any other connections in the charging system? Is the water/acid level where it should be? When topping the battery up do you use distilled water only?

Side note:
 INITIAL CHARGING PROCEDURE:  Once the electrolyte is in your battery and the battery caps are hand tightened, you should then charge your battery with a low-amperage battery charger.  We recommend that a battery should never be charged at amperage greater than 10% of the amp-hour rating of the battery.  For example, if you have a 10 amp-hour battery, a 1 amp battery charge is recommended.  A 5 amp-hour battery should be charged at a .5 amp rate.   You should allow approximately 10-12 hours to fully charge your battery. We also suggest using a charger that cuts off when your battery is fully charged.

Source: http://www.ebatteriestogo.com/Activation_Charging_Procedure.htm
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 02:15:19 PM by OldGuy »
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axy

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2010, 02:47:16 PM »
Since I worked in the automotive electrical field for several years here's a subject that I can address with some authority.

First, let's discuss the function of the battery in any vehicle. It has only one purpose. To provide sufficient energy to start the vehicle! (Okay, before someone calls me on it, in modern vehicles it retains the memory in the computer. The amount of current needed for this task is so minuet that we can ignore it.) Once the vehicle is running the battery should just be sitting there getting recharged by the current left over from the tasks of operating the machine. All of the lights, the horn, the radio, the cell phone recharger, the nav system etc. should be powered by the charging system. Unfortunately, particularly on scooters the charging system has very little left for recharging the battery. If you've accessorized your scoot you may have problems. I once had a customer who complained that the battery kept dying in his car. The reason? He had installed a super whizzbang stereo with two humongous amplifiers in the trunk that drew, by themselves 105 amps against a 90 amp alternator. ::)
[/url]

1.

I've never worked in that field, but let me add at least few more major functions of the battery, except just providing initial kick to spin the engine.

- just as important, it filters out spikes in electricity produced by the alternator/charging system, thus protecting electrical circuits and various appliances in the vehicle (I am aware there is a separate filtering/regulating device in every vehicle for this too...)
- source of electric energy in case of overload imposed on the charging system (this happens rarely, but it can happen)
- a number of things, even on scoots, depend on battery to function. For example, car alarm, remote door opening, car radio memory. In case of scoots, it can be alarm, clock memory and certain injection functions in case of fuel injected scooters

2.

Furthermore, let me dispel the myth about undersized electrical charging systems on scoots.

One of the things I use on all my scoots are heated handgrips that use up to 5 A of electricity initially and then around 2-5 A.

I have heard even on this forum people who think it is impossible to fit those on scoots "because battery is too weak", "because the charging system cannot sustain that" etc.

In winter time, when I go to work and when I come back, I use both lights and heated handgrips. I commute 12 kms from suburbs, so most of the time I use long beam.

Never had a single issue, not on Beverly 200, not on People 250 S and even my gf who rides a "small" scoot - Agility 125 - never experienced ill effects.

This leads to conclusion that there are some Amps of spare capacity embedded in the charging system.
I guess that this myth originates from old mopeds and bikes from 60's and 70's that were less generously egineered in that
department.

p.s. This certainly does not mean that you can bake bread in under seat storage in oven connected to 12V outlet, but it should not be a problem to divide Watt output of the generator system with 12V and calculate total Amps it can take without problems.

My 5c.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 02:50:20 PM by axy »
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Portland Steve

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2010, 03:34:07 PM »
To sum up...

If you rider every day or at least three times a week, then no charging should be necessary.

Use a trickly charger ("Batter Tender Plus" is my recommendation) if you ride a few time a month.

If you ride less than that, sell the bike so someone else can enjoy it!

Replace your scooter battery with a quality battery every two years to be safe.

Ride more worry less :)

ts1

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2010, 03:49:22 PM »
Electronic (esp. theft alarm) can drain a battery, but a conventional mechanic bike should be able to rest for few months (self discharge <=10% / month) and start on the first push of the starter button.
But after such a long rest head out for a trip, not only to the next store.

axy

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Re: Batteries and how long they should last
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2010, 05:30:22 PM »
Electronic (esp. theft alarm) can drain a battery, but a conventional mechanic bike should be able to rest for few months (self discharge <=10% / month) and start on the first push of the starter button.
But after such a long rest head out for a trip, not only to the next store.

:) True.

Some first hand experience.

Bev 200 was sold to a colleague at work who worked abroad on 75/21 rotation.

After coming back to the country he could start the scoot without problems.
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(Past: Kymco People 250S, Piaggio Beverly 200, Kawasaki ZR-7S, Yamaha TW125, Kymco Cobra Cross 50, Peugeot Zenith 50, Piaggio NRG 50 mc2 72 cc Naraku kit)

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