Diagnosing problems without a dealer

[JJJoseph]

Following my question about getting along without a Kymco dealer is the problem of diagnostics without dealer tools.  I'm OK with my 10-yr old GY6 powered Kymco, but can't figure out how to maintain a new fuel-injected Kymco without Kymco diagnostic tools like on cars with OBD-2 ports.  I can't see a source for Kymco diagnostic tools.  Any suggestions?

[MJR]

My MyRoad 700i flashes out codes with the check engine light when it sees a problem, not sure about yours.

[JJJoseph]

My MyRoad 700i flashes out codes with the check engine light when it sees a problem, not sure about yours.

That's not quite was I was asking about.  The CEL is something different. I'm thinking of moving up from my 10-yr old Kymco to one of the new fuel injected models, and need diagnostic tools if something goes wrong.  Like for example, it won't start. Normally with a fuel-injected machine, you tow it to the dealer who plugs in a hand-held device which shows the problem.  But, with no Kymco dealer anywhere nearby, I'd need the hand-held diagnostic tool and training in how to use it.  Where do I find this?

[Stig / Major Tom]

Geography plays a part in my scooter purchases.
Several years ago I had to decide between buying, riding and possibly breaking down ---  on an Italian scooter -- in rural MidWest.....
Or purchasing a Honda, with 3 Honda mega sellers nearby, and many scattered about the MidWest..

I went with the Honda.
Perhaps you'd be more comfortable buying a new EFI scooter brand which has plenty of local support?

That said, my VW mechanics convinced me decades ago that, using little more than a service manual, EFI engines are not hard to diagnose. They were an old aircooled VW shop, but had no trouble keeping my EFI, H20 VW's running.

Stig

[eamartin]

www.obdresource.com/1040-moto-7000tw-M700.html  + another 50 bucks for the Kymco adapter cable.  Yikes!

[Stig / Major Tom]

www.obdresource.com/1040-moto-7000tw-M700.html  + another 50 bucks for the Kymco adapter cable.  Yikes!

The Kymco diagnostic tool is about  $250.

Stig

[MJR]

That's not quite was I was asking about.  The CEL is something different. I'm thinking of moving up from my 10-yr old Kymco to one of the new fuel injected models, and need diagnostic tools if something goes wrong.  Like for example, it won't start. Normally with a fuel-injected machine, you tow it to the dealer who plugs in a hand-held device which shows the problem.  But, with no Kymco dealer anywhere nearby, I'd need the hand-held diagnostic tool and training in how to use it.  Where do I find this?

I'm not really sure why people feel they need to have a scan tool especially on something as simple as a motorcycle. I could see it being more helpful on something like modern automobiles that often have a dozen or more computers controlling all kinds of functions. As a professional auto mechanic they are nice to have but basic knowledge of the system and how it works makes diagnosing a problem with a scan tool unnecessary. A simple multimeter and test light are all I use with a factory service manual.

Look at my posts in the Xciting 700 sub forum where I have diagnosed a bad electrically adjustable shock and crank/no start problem. Not to mention my other scooters where you can see my posts on the Burgman USA forum with some electrical problems I have had with my 650's including charging, crank/no start, electronic CVT system, etc... FYI just by having a code doesn't mean that specific part is to blame and diagnosis with a multimeter may still be required to test the components and circuits.

[CROSSBOLT]

Stig beat me to the Yikes! The Kymco tool has been useful but mandatory in only one case that I recall. Most of the problems that have been solved here would not have shown up on the tool. What solved them was knowledge of the systems and trial and error. Good old police work! Do not bother to ask a dealer and don't even listen to a salesman! The fuel injection system is very reliable. More reliable than present day carburetor set ups!

[JJJoseph]

The fuel injection system is very reliable. More reliable than present day carburetor set ups!

I'm not disputing your acquired wisdom.  You have the advantage, and the faith to carry you through. I don't have that.  I do know that a carburetor is easy to diagnose at home, but EFI is not.  If my EFI Kymco won't start because of an EFI problem, there's nothing I can do since there's no dealer, and no other shop will even look at it.  Even if I don't know how to use the diagnostics, a Brand-X dealer will know what to do.  Without the diagnostics, it's junk. That's really an important consideration with EFI, not to be overlooked. 

[MJR]

By far the single most important item to have is a factory service manual from the vehicle manufacturer. This covers every thing from basic maintenance, electrical, how to take the body panels off, diagnostics, to rebuilding major assemblies.

[JJJoseph]

By far the single most important item to have is a factory service manual from the vehicle manufacturer. This covers every thing from basic maintenance, electrical, how to take the body panels off, diagnostics, to rebuilding major assemblies.

Thanks for the info. I do appreciate your reply.  However, I was asking about diagnostics, not basic maintenance.  Cheers!

[CROSSBOLT]

  I do know that a carburetor is easy to diagnose at home, but EFI is not.

You do have a valid point there!

[CROSSBOLT]

MJR is exactly right! The trouble codes are built in. You may not be able to tell what the voltage is but you will be told it is out of spec. MJR is genius! Further, if not already mentioned, is most dealers have no idea how to even begin trouble shooting one of these. The folkes on here do! Also not mentioned, it IS possible to get the dealer to aquire parts on warranty and you put them on while returning the faulty part. It depends entirely on your relationship with the dealer. I did it with one in Nashville I do not particularly care for. Got a vacuum vent valve on warranty before I knew where it was! I would not walk across the street for this dealer to dump a glass of water on him if he was on fire but that came after the warranty arrangement. The thing to remember here is the dealer will throw parts at a problem until it goes away. Kymco USA is VERY easy with parts on warranty but real tight with labor. So you could make a whole buncha mistakes within reason with no or little downside.

[hypophthalmus]

There's a lot of extremely valuable information from the ECU that isn't trouble codes.

Fuel trims, especially. It'll instantly point you towards leaking injectors, vacuum leaks, non-fuel issues, fuel starvation.

Also, sensors values can be within spec while there's still some issue. For example, a dead spot on the TPS.

[CROSSBOLT]

Also, sensors values can be within spec while there's still some issue. For example, a dead spot on the TPS.

That was the one example where the tool was really beneficial.