Performance Variator Recommendations

[webslappy]

With the scooter tucked away for the Winter, I'm planning on upgrading the variator in the Spring. Is there much of a difference between a Polini and Malossi?  Any advice from someone that has upgraded their variator and was it worth it.  I'm just looking for a quicker start and maybe a few top end mph.  Will be upgrading to a Kevlar belt when I have it cracked open as well.

[Tromper]

Old thread here but no response, so my two bits.

Before swapping the variator try some DP's 1 gram lighter than stock.  It's a good idea anyway.
I ran stock weight DPs and it killed the flatspot, I think going a bit lighter would improve things overall, possibly give  you a bit more top end but I have my doubts.
Might even be that 1g lighter rollers would be fine as well if you don't want to use sliders.

Cheers

Tromper

With the scooter tucked away for the Winter, I'm planning on upgrading the variator in the Spring. Is there much of a difference between a Polini and Malossi?  Any advice from someone that has upgraded their variator and was it worth it.  I'm just looking for a quicker start and maybe a few top end mph.  Will be upgrading to a Kevlar belt when I have it cracked open as well.

[de dee]

On my downtown 300i  I ground out the variator as it had more beef around the outside , I made the slide area more curved for the rollers, my aim was to lower RPM.  not higher speed as 95 MPH is to fast for me,  changing the curve lowered the RPM at highway speeds  at 75 MPH I can get RPM down to 6,000 RPM, before it was 8,000 and over, with higher gearing YOU GET LOWER POWER AT TOP SPEED,.  so it will drop top speed,.  I bought other variators and found the downtown is the best to do any modding,. 

[de dee]

 I checked the vaiator in my yager 200i  not good to do any thing no beef around the outside ,  so I think I will buy a malossi speed variator and try that, to see if I can lower the RPM at 65 MPH,.  as it is at red line at 65   
   if I can aford it I will buy one for my Piaggio 350i b v as I would like to take some long trips this summer, 

[Stig / Major Tom]

I checked the vaiator in my yager 200i  not good to do any thing no beef around the outside ,  so I think I will buy a malossi speed variator and try that, to see if I can lower the RPM at 65 MPH,.  as it is at red line at 65   
   if I can aford it I will buy one for my Piaggio 350i b v as I would like to take some long trips this summer, 

Dr P's sliders lowered my RPM's by nearly 1,000 at 80mph on my 400 Burgman....and lower all thru the upper speeds.
Stig

[webslappy]

Old thread here but no response, so my two bits.

Before swapping the variator try some DP's 1 gram lighter than stock.  It's a good idea anyway.
I ran stock weight DPs and it killed the flatspot, I think going a bit lighter would improve things overall, possibly give  you a bit more top end but I have my doubts.
Might even be that 1g lighter rollers would be fine as well if you don't want to use sliders.

Cheers

Tromper

Thanks, Tromper.  Before putting it away, I put in 13g DP weights which I think is 1g lighter than stock. It was so cool that I didn't really get a chance to see what difference it made. I'll have to wait until Spring for that.  I thought that I'd sock a little money away over the winter and upgrade the variator to give it a little extra punch.

[KymcoRockr]

A performance variator is going to make the scooter accelerate quicker, and usually have a higher top end. The reason they exist is not to lower your rpms at a certain speed. That's not how performance is measured.
If you examine them, the only traditional style variator that is really a lot different in terms of construction than the stock variator is the Malossi variator. The backplate, if it comes with one, is thicker, the slides are bigger and more substantial, and the variator overall is more substantial. Polini variators usually seem like someone redesigned the ramps in a stock variator. They hold up as well as what you already have. As far as J Costa, people put them in and love them, then hate them when they take out the rest of the transmission. Dr. Pulley sliders or any other magic sliders don't have the same effect as a well designed performance variator.
There is a lot of misinformation as to how variators work and what you should look for in a variator and weights. Another thing that really ins't what you are aiming for in terms of performance is whether or not your belt rubs off sharpie at the highest position on the variator. If the belt is lower in the variator while you are accelerating, you will usually go faster. OTOH, using a heavier torque spring to achieve this wears belts out faster. Ideally, you want a set up that is going to keep the belt where it works best through the engine's powerband, then goes to the top of the variator, and you don't want to bounce the rev limiter. If you've ever ridden a bicycle that changes gears, imagine if you get rolling and then put it in the highest gear possible. That's where the variator is when the belt is as high up on it as it can possibly go. And that's not where you get your best performance. 

[scooterfan]

A performance variator is going to make the scooter accelerate quicker, and usually have a higher top end. The reason they exist is not to lower your rpms at a certain speed. That's not how performance is measured.
If you examine them, the only traditional style variator that is really a lot different in terms of construction than the stock variator is the Malossi variator. The backplate, if it comes with one, is thicker, the slides are bigger and more substantial, and the variator overall is more substantial. Polini variators usually seem like someone redesigned the ramps in a stock variator. They hold up as well as what you already have. As far as J Costa, people put them in and love them, then hate them when they take out the rest of the transmission. Dr. Pulley sliders or any other magic sliders don't have the same effect as a well designed performance variator.
There is a lot of misinformation as to how variators work and what you should look for in a variator and weights. Another thing that really ins't what you are aiming for in terms of performance is whether or not your belt rubs off sharpie at the highest position on the variator. If the belt is lower in the variator while you are accelerating, you will usually go faster. OTOH, using a heavier torque spring to achieve this wears belts out faster. Ideally, you want a set up that is going to keep the belt where it works best through the engine's powerband, then goes to the top of the variator, and you don't want to bounce the rev limiter. If you've ever ridden a bicycle that changes gears, imagine if you get rolling and then put it in the highest gear possible. That's where the variator is when the belt is as high up on it as it can possibly go. And that's not where you get your best performance.

Thanks, I am quite new to scooters and CVT systems and I find your comments very helpful. to get better informed.
 Something that really twists my mind regarding CVT "gearboxes",  is the possible effect of a worn drive belt on these systems.

It seem to be common knowledge that a Variator actually determines belt hight at the clutch pulley. In other words - the deeper the belt sag into the Variator during take off, the higher the belt will be at the clutch Pulley.

As far as worn belts are concerned - common sense tells me that a worn belt (i.e. 2mm narrower than a new belt) will sag quite deeper into the Variator pulley during takeoff,  and at the same time run quite higher at the clutch pulley.

I know this might sound quite weird - but in theory I think this means a worn belt could actually contribute to a better performance during take off - compared to a new belt which will be wider, and therefore not sag that deep into the Variator pulley.

Maybe top speed with a worn might even be higher as well ?

The only downfalls on a worn belt I can think of are :

1. When it becomes too narrow, it might snap.
2. When it becomes too narrow, it will start "sitting loose" in the pulley grooves - without "stretching".
3. When it becomes too narrow, it will start "flapping" at the bottom.

In short -  Right or wrong, I have a feeling there should not be too many concerns about driving belts - a slightly worn belt could easily improve a scooter's general performance.

What are your thoughts regarding worn driving belts ? 

[KymcoRockr]

The clutch and engine power are what determine where on the variator the belt is. The torque spring forces the clutch pulleys back together and this forces the variator apart. If it wasn't there, the variator would open all the way and the rollers would fall out. So if you have a heavier torque spring, it is forcing the engine to use more power, or a higher rpm range, to make the belt rise. This keeps the belt lower in the variator while you are accelerating. Again, think of a bicycle, and how the gears work. You can pedal faster in lower gears.
Once a belt is worn, the variator has to move further to push it up. This means that the engine has to work harder. It's also when you start having issues with rollers getting pinched or held between the backplate and the half pulley, the part where the rollers sit. This is more likely to cause problems with sliders than with rollers, which is one of the reasons the companies that make performance parts don't use sliders. Rollers gonna roll.
Belts used in racing are usually a little longer than stock, so you do get a wider gear ratio, but you have a heavy enough torque spring that you're not pushing the belt out the top of the variator. On the other hand, there are scooters that have a real problem with the belt going to the top and hitting the engine case or bendix. On these scooters, people sometimes use a shorter belt.