Author Topic: Grand Dink 150cc  (Read 1715 times)

djson280

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Grand Dink 150cc
« on: December 17, 2018, 09:43:00 AM »
Hi i just got this Grand Dink 150cc 2005.

I changed the coolant and now it is running very hot.

I think there is air in the system, but can't understand why!

I took off the rad bottom hose, and then filled it with coolant from the res bottle.

Run it for a while but its getting to just under the red mark, normally it runs about half way.

Any idea how to bleed the air out?

On another note, it seems to be doing around 75mpg, though i have only calculated it once.

When around 5mph it shakes, a bit like the clutch is slipping, but once over 10mpg it seems to go away.

Is this normal for an auto scooter?

Never had a scooter before.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Chow people.

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2018, 01:54:04 PM »
You have massive air in cooling system. Must fill at radiator cap and burp. Reservoir bottle only "fills" to system when it cools. 1. Fill thru radiator cap. 2. Start and idle until thermostat opens. Coolant should all but disappear. 3. Repeat until you cannot fill any more. 4. THEN and only then put coolant into res bottle.
These machines will not fully engage the clutch at 5 mph. 15 mph is about as slow as they go smoothly.
How many miles on the machine, valve adjustment and other factors point to low mileage. Need more facts...
Karl

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Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
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djson280

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2018, 05:07:29 PM »
Thanks Karl,

23000 on clock.

What should the mpg be?

I should have realised  it needed filling from the rad cap.


CROSSBOLT

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2018, 05:37:44 PM »
I think the Dink (har, har!?) and the Yager were related and I got over 90 mpg on that which was 173 cc with fuel injection. Is your a carburetor? Lower mpg if it is. I would think 75 would be a bit low for 150.
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

djson280

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2018, 10:20:37 AM »
Good morning

Well Karl, i saw on the net that they were doing on average 90mpg, but i thought that was a bit high.

On Kymco official info i found it said 68mpg, which i thought might be right; but i've never has a small scooter before, so had no real idea..

Yes it is a carburetor.

it was my own fault really, i did not realise it needed filling from the rad first, (i fill my van up rad first then res bottle otherwise it gets an air lock)

So i looked for a manual yesterday and as clear as day there is a rad cap, so one knows what to do.


So i took the front off this morning and filled it from the rad cap and made sure it the thermostat opened, and guess what all is well now.

I have 1o miles of motorway to get home, so had to stay ay 30 mph to keep the temp down, do everyone on the road was not very happy with me.

Anyway all's well that finally ended well.

Thanks






Stig / Major Tom

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2018, 12:06:45 PM »
Good morning

Well Karl, i saw on the net that they were doing on average 90mpg, but i thought that was a bit high.

On Kymco official info i found it said 68mpg, which i thought might be right; but i've never has a small scooter before, so had no real idea..

Yes it is a carburetor.

it was my own fault really, i did not realise it needed filling from the rad first, (i fill my van up rad first then res bottle otherwise it gets an air lock)

So i looked for a manual yesterday and as clear as day there is a rad cap, so one knows what to do.


So i took the front off this morning and filled it from the rad cap and made sure it the thermostat opened, and guess what all is well now.

I have 1o miles of motorway to get home, so had to stay ay 30 mph to keep the temp down, do everyone on the road was not very happy with me.

Anyway all's well that finally ended well.

Thanks






Super !
....and way to go Karl!
 Well done you - both.!
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CROSSBOLT

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2018, 01:37:20 PM »
DJ, where are you located? Glad it is sorted!

Thanks, Stig!
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

djson280

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2018, 06:30:10 PM »
I'm in south of Spain. Though I'm from UK, been here a long time now.

Though this is the smallest 2 wheels I've ever owned.

Now i have another question.

Sometimes; seems more often in the early morning, and at night when it is cold: Though it has happened during the day also:

When you press the starter button Nothing happens, it does not turn over at all.

Nothing not a sound.

turn the key, back and forth, nothing.

Then just like magic, it turns over and of course because it is cold, starts after some turns.

I took it to a mechanic, who said it is the battery, you need a new one.

I'm really not sure: Because in my experience, when the battery is weak, it turns over but weakly.

that is not the case here.

When it turns it is turning over correctly, strongly, not missing a beat.

The problem, is that is just does not engage.

I think it is an electrical, something, relay, solenoid, or wiring, earthing issue.

I may very well go and get a new battery as  I've found one for £10.

Any thoughts. Thanks

scooterfan

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2018, 07:26:44 PM »
It might be the battery, but it never make sense to buy a new battery before a proper load test has been done on the battery.

To do a proper load test on the battery, you can remove the battery and hook it to a battery charger, get it fully charged, and then take it to a reputable battery dealer to do a proper load test on the battery. The battery dealer will not be able to do a load test if the battery is not fully charged - so just make sure the battery is charged before you take it to the dealer.
The battery dealer will be able to confirm whether the battery is faulty or not.

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2018, 02:07:12 AM »
What scooterfan said but the intermittent nature of your description says to me there is a bad connection either in the switch side or a ground. Since it is a 2005, I would suspect a bad ground. However, you may want to check first the switches in the brake levers. There is a small switch on each one that can be "jumpered" with alligator clips to simulate the switch being closed. Each switch in the system, ignition, start botton, starter relay/"solenoid" and then even the starter could need brushes. Just start somewhere in that system and test each item. Post each step. We will stand by.
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

scooterfan

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2018, 05:23:14 AM »
What scooterfan said but the intermittent nature of your description says to me there is a bad connection either in the switch side or a ground. Since it is a 2005, I would suspect a bad ground. However, you may want to check first the switches in the brake levers. There is a small switch on each one that can be "jumpered" with alligator clips to simulate the switch being closed. Each switch in the system, ignition, start botton, starter relay/"solenoid" and then even the starter could need brushes. Just start somewhere in that system and test each item. Post each step. We will stand by.


I fully agree. I only described the way how a battery needs to be tested properly to eliminate the idea that the battery is faulty. Many people  waste money on new batteries while  their old batteries are not faulty. I also think in this case the battery is not faulty.
To my experience the starting point in tracing any given electrical problem is to get a proper load test done on the battery. Only when the load test proved that the battery is not faulty, other possibilities need to be investigated one by one.

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Viper254

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2018, 09:46:05 AM »
Although it's a bit of a shot in the dark, Kymco scooters do seem to disproportionately suffer from starter relay issues and that could be what you're experiencing.

Does it have a kick start?
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scooterfan

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2018, 04:55:12 PM »
I do not have any experience with 150cc Kymcos, but don’t think it will have a starter “relay”. It will have a starter solenoid. I think Crossbolt was referring to the solenoids which might be problematic.

It is important to understand that starters and solenoids are not the same, works differently, and needs to be tested differently.

If the Kymco starter solenoids are problematic, there would be no reason to stick to OEM solenoids. All external starter solenoids work the same, and almost look the same. There are many high quality external starter solenoids on the market, and most auto auto electrician specialists should be able to supply high quality solenoids which will be suitable for Kymco scooters.

If the scooter doesn’t start again, you can easily test the solenoid by short-circuting the two terminals on the solenoid with a isolated piece of wire, or a screwdiver. You just need to be very careful - sparks will be flying everywhere and there must be no leaking fuel lines when you try this test.
This test kind of test is often not recommended, but is an easy way to see if the solenoid is faulty or not.

In short, if you want to try this test when the scooter doesnt start - you can test the solenoid by following the instuctions on the video below.
If the startier swings, the solenoid should be faulty.

This video is not about Kymcos, but the way to test the solenoid will be the same:



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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2018, 08:15:38 PM »
When I asked about the starter relay/solenoid, I was using both terms since many INTERCHANGE these terms for the same thing: the 2-fat wire, 2-skinny wire, heavy current contactor thingy between the batt'ry an' the starter motor. I be a fat, lazy, old guy that takes the easy way out after YEARS of battling southern mill wrights and, "Well, I call it __________."
Karl

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Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
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scooterfan

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Re: Grand Dink 150cc
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2018, 11:31:24 AM »

...................................Kymco scooters do seem to disproportionately suffer from starter relay issues and that could be what you're experiencing.



Thanks for your comment. By having a close look at the starting problem above, your comment (quoted above) reminded me about a similar problem we experienced quite some time on some engines at work before I retired.

I short - for almost two decades I was involved in building industrial High Pressure and drain cleaning machines for local municipalities and private companies. On certain engines we experienced similar starting problems - as described above. Engine quality was good, but we kept on having come-backs with starting problems. The symptoms were exactly the same as described above.
After a proper investigation at work, we discovered that the starter solenoids on the engines actually needed a separate relay just before the starter relay. The reasons were very simple:

1.The engines came from the manufacturer with wiring which were too thin for starting purposes.
2. Voltage tests at the starter solenoids proved that there was a substantial Voltage drop at the starter Solenoid whenever we hit the starter button.

In short - the problem has been solved permanently just by installing ordinary 4-pin Relays just before, and quite close to the starter Solenoids.

The reasoning for this modification was as follows:

1. The "switch part" of an ordinary Relay ( terminals 86 and 85 ) only draws low Amps to activate the relay Switch.
2. Terminal 30 on a Relay usually gets connected directly to the Battery, with a fuse in between.
    Terminal 87 on a 4 pin Relay is the " Positive Power Supply) to whatever component needs proper power supply.

So this is what actually happens when a Relay gets installed:

1. When the Starter Button gets pressed, the "switch part" (86 and 85) of the Relay never pull much Amps, and the switch can even cope with a voltage drop to get activated.

But important:

2.  When the switch part get activated, the solenoid actually gets proper Volt feed directly from the Battery - via terminal 30,  and the starter motor draws proper proper Volt feed from terminal 87.

This means whenever an additional Relay gets installed, the starter Solenoid does not get a voltage feed via the starter Button any longer - the Solenoid actually draws proper Voltage directly from the battery.

Modifications like this also protects the starter buttons, as well as solenoids itself. Since we started doing this modifications at work, all starting problems disappeared and we never had any come-backs again.

To my mind the starter button on my scooter is probably not suitable to handle the Voltage feed to the starter Solenoid for too many years. The wiring to the Solenoid is also quite thin and although I haven't done a Voltage test at the Solenoid, I am absolutely convinced that these scooters will have a substantial Voltage drop at the starter Solenoid.

Although I have not experienced any similar starting problems yet, I am absolutely convinced that a Relay medication as described above can only have benefits on these scooters. Therefore I decided to do a similar modification on my scooter - just to try and expand the lifespan of the starter Button and Solenoid on my scooter.

If anyone might be interested, this is a drawing of how to install a separate 4 - Pin Relay to ensure proper Voltage feed to a starter Solenoid / Starter motor:

« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 12:26:46 PM by scooterfan »
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