hard to start

[DIRKHUNT]

Hi All,

I took 2 or 3 weeks off from riding my 2013 People 300i and now it takes over a minute of cranking to start.
Once running it runs fine.
I'm not getting any weird flashing of my engine light, it looks just like it used to.
It is not a cold motor thing as it behaves the same way after shutting it off for as little as 1 minute and trying to restart.

Anyone had something similar happen or can suggest a potential culprit I'm all ears.

Thanks from sunny Florida

Dirk

[Stig / Major Tom]

How many miles since last valve check?

Stig

[CROSSBOLT]

Not right. Should fire and run in two revolutions. Once started and running as usual will it restart normally after shut off?

[Yellow Jacket]

At just over 14K, I've had 2 recent issues of not starting. Acts like no spark but don't know at this time. One time bike was hot, the other cold. Don't have a clue at this time. Both times finally started about the time I was looking up Uber's number. Has always started as CROSSBOLT says, within 2 rev's. Tight valves usually show up on cold start, goes away after motor heats up.

[scooterfan]

Check the valve clearances. Valves which are too tight often cause start problems. There are lots of info on the web regarding this subject. The link below is just one of them.

https://www.moddedraptor.com/community/raptor-700-general/8549-tight-valves-symptoms.html

[Trucker jay]

Mine would do that but not since putting in a new battery

[CROSSBOLT]

Mine would do that but not since putting in a new battery

Ah-HA! That is what happened to mine last year! Lotsa testing revealed voltage less than 10.5 while cranking will NOT allow the ECU to generate the spark, or at least will not allow the engine to fire and run. Check the battery, load test it. Check the volts while cranking.

[scooterfan]

Ah-HA! That is what happened to mine last year! Lotsa testing revealed voltage less than 10.5 while cranking will NOT allow the ECU to generate the spark, or at least will not allow the engine to fire and run. Check the battery, load test it. Check the volts while cranking.

Very interesting. I guess you mean the starter motor was still able to swing the engine while the battery voltage was lower than 10.5 Volt - but the engine didn't start ?

The reason for my question - on my previous bike (Honda NC700) the ECU shut down completely when the battery voltage became too low. This means the bike's ignition system shut down completely, and the starter motor couldn't be activated to swing the engine. Therefore a "no spark" situation at the spark plugs didn't play any role why the bike couldn't be started when battery voltage was too low.
On normal vehicles (cars, trucks etc.) batteries with low voltage only cause starter motor failure - "no spark" at the plugs is not the reason why the engines can not be started.

I'm not questioning your observation - it just looks like starting problems on these scooters might be related to reasons which are not known to most of us.

[scooterfan]

@ Trucker jay / CROSSBOLT

Since my previous post I did some reading about CDI's and your'e 100% correct. Scooters with 12 Volt batteries come with DC CDI's  and the CDI's need 12 Volts from a FULLY CHARGED battery to work properly.

I will try to post links with info in this regard later.

[CROSSBOLT]

Yep, the starter motor did well at a measured 9.5 volts while cranking but not firing. Only slightly slower cranking speed sound. This was one of those "it worked yesterday but not today" deals. Made me want to install a voltmeter....
And, scooterfan, I must say I appreciate your efforts in researching CDI voltage preferences! Where did you find that information?

[Trucker jay]

Too add my scooter would be hard to start for 6 months before the battery was so bad it wouldn't start at all.  I tought I had 2 problems but turned out to be a old weak battery.  Next time it does the hard to start episodes I'm saving wear on by starter and replacing the battery.

[Yellow Jacket]

I suppose there are different types of CDI systems. I have a kick start motorcycle with CDI and it will start and run fine without a battery at all. Have to admit, I'm a little handicapped when it come to electrical issues. Aside from my GT300i, I also had a 150 Elite that sometimes wouldn't start, but only when hot. Never considered low voltage from the battery. With both bikes, the starter would turn the motor over but acted like no spark. That is a little hard to check with all the bodywork on a scooter.

[DIRKHUNT]

Mine would do that but not since putting in a new battery

As a follow up to the original post.
I took my hand digital multimeter and measured the voltage of the battery. It was 12.02 V. Tried to start it and same thing, about 30 seconds of cranking and still nothing but starter motor.

Took battery down to 11.82V so I put it on a 2A 12V charger and got the voltage back up to 12.8 V.
Cranked and fired instantly.

I pulled the battery and it was the OEM Kymco battery (2019-2013= that was a hell of a battery  )

So the battery seemed to hold amps but not enough volts to run the ignition. New battery on the way.

BTW did you know the Hyabusa uses the same YT12A-BS  battery that came stock in the People 300?

Thanks everyone for the feedback

[Yellow Jacket]

Couldn't have been better timing for me to find this thread. Was going for a short ride today. Kymco hasn't been started for probably 3 weeks. Lots of cranking, but no start. Put battery on charge for a couple hours and hit the start button. Fired immediately. If not for this thread I would have wasted a lot of time trying to trouble shoot my problem. Wouldn't have thought of low battery voltage. I'm used to thinking with CDI if the motor turns over it would fire.  

[scooterfan]

Couldn't have been better timing for me to find this thread........
Wouldn't have thought of low battery voltage. I'm used to thinking with CDI if the motor turns over it would fire.

Yup, I was also very surprized to discover that power to generate a spark on scooters with DC CDI’s actually comes directly from the battery, NOT the stator.

On scooters with AC CDI’s (the smaller CDI’s) power to generate a spark comes directly from the stator, NOT from a battery.

The “catch” here is actually to understand that any given CDI needs proper power supply from elsewhere (battery OR stator) before it will work, otherwise it will not be able to release power to the ignition coil and spark plug.