What plug are you using

[CROSSBOLT]

Well, Roxy, I really do not have any idea why your 2012 DT300i is a problem starting. Yours seems to be the only one in many here with that problem. It could be still a number of causes like a bad or intermittent pulsar, a simple bad ground somewhere, I don't know. But I could find the problem within a week with a logical trouble shooting approach. And that would be an easy week at that.

[scooterfan]

Ok battery new when bought scooter February 2018 always been on a moose charger never been discharged...............................
The only other thing is it’s possible the starter could be drawing to many amps but doesn’t act like that..........................

Hopefully I get this figured out but so far my old Tao Tao was more reliable always started.I believe I got someone else’s headache mow it’s mine

Good luck in finding the problem. Nobody can obviously force you to do a proper Volt test, I can only mention that to my experience there is no guarantee that a brand new battery can not be faulty. In fact - as recent as early last year a brand new battery on my previous bike has been replaced under guarantee, because the new battery I bought a couple of months before got faulty.

I would also recommend doing a Google search about how DC CDI's actually work. Only when one realize these things need maximum power from the BATTERY to produce a powerful spark at the plug, it becomes easier to understand why scooters battle to start with lower Volts from the battery.

Your scooter also has a fuel pump, which obviously draws more power from the battery. Apart from the starter motor, the fuel pump obviously contributes to a deeper power surge from the battery. This additional power surge can also contributes insufficient Voltage at the CDI to produce a proper spark at the spark plug.

Anyway - should you ever decide to do a proper Voltage test during your lifetime, you should actually unplug the power supply plug on your scooter's CDI.
DC CDI's normally has 6 pins, and the power supply plug is often a seperate 2 pin plug which plug in to 2 of the 6 pins on the CDI. The Voltage test should be done on the Positive (+) terminal of the loose wire when the plug has been unplugged from the CDI.
You just need to switch the ignition switch on, press the starter button, and see what Voltage reading you get at the terminal when the engine is swinging.

Again, nobody can force you to do the Voltage test at the CDI plug. I certainly would do the test - even on a "new" battery.

Good luck.

[roxyflash]

Good luck in finding the problem. Nobody can obviously force you to do a proper Volt test, I can only mention that to my experience there is no guarantee that a brand new battery can not be faulty. In fact - as recent as early last year a brand new battery on my previous bike has been replaced under guarantee, because the new battery I bought a couple of months before got faulty.

I would also recommend doing a Google search about how DC CDI's actually work. Only when one realize these things need maximum power from the BATTERY to produce a powerful spark at the plug, it becomes easier to understand why scooters battle to start with lower Volts from the battery.

Your scooter also has a fuel pump, which obviously draws more power from the battery. Apart from the starter motor, the fuel pump obviously contributes to a deeper power surge from the battery. This additional power surge can also contributes insufficient Voltage at the CDI to produce a proper spark at the spark plug.

Anyway - should you ever decide to do a proper Voltage test during your lifetime, you should actually unplug the power supply plug on your scooter's CDI.
DC CDI's normally has 6 pins, and the power supply plug is often a seperate 2 pin plug which plug in to 2 of the 6 pins on the CDI. The Voltage test should be done on the Positive (+) terminal of the loose wire when the plug has been unplugged from the CDI.
You just need to switch the ignition switch on, press the starter button, and see what Voltage reading you get at the terminal when the engine is swinging.

Again, nobody can force you to do the Voltage test at the CDI plug. I certainly would do the test - even on a "new" battery.

Good luck.

You don’t get it had my fluke at the coil testing voltage with a new car battery group 31 getting plenty voltage at coil!Back probe it then when it run had the 37 code.Im done here.Im aerial technician been doing it for 25 years.You think I’m stupid or something just read what I posted.I wasn’t even using the scooter battery.The group 31 has 950 cold cracking amps I don’t have a low volt issue from battery

[scooterfan]

You don’t get it had my fluke at the coil testing voltage with a new car battery group 31 getting plenty voltage at coil!Back probe it then when it run had the 37 code.Im done here.Im aerial technician been doing it for 25 years.You think I’m stupid or something just read what I posted.I wasn’t even using the scooter battery.The group 31 has 950 cold cracking amps I don’t have a low volt issue from battery

Thanks for more detail about code 31 batteries. Unfortunately we don't use the term "code 31" batteries at this side of the pond, and I didn't Google the subject before I passed my comments. Over here we just refer to "Amp Hours", or the number stamped on batteries  when we refer to specific size batteries. I just Googled "code 31" batteries" now, and now understand what you were referring to. My fault.

As far as Iridium spark plugs are concerned - I don't understand for what reason you informed me "you are wrong". At more than 250 000 kms my wife's car (Ford Focus 2 liter Trend) is still running perfectly with it's second set of Iridium plugs. We bought the car new, and I replaced the original set of plugs myself at about 155 000 kms. I recently inspected the second set of plugs, and couldn't find any reason why the plugs needed to be replaced.
I bought my previous bike (Honda NC700X) brand new, and sold the bike at 87 000 kms without ever changing the original plugs. I kept record of fuel consumption from day one, and at 87k fuel consumption was exactly the same as when thje bike was new. I once inspected the plugs, and it still looked brand new.

There are people at this forum who use Iridium plugs on their engines without any problems. I can not think of any reason why they do not experience problems with Iridium plugs on their engines, and you think Iridium plugs would not be good for these engines. To my mind it simply doesn't make sense. Your 25 years of areal technician experience will not convince me that my own personal experiences with iridium plugs are wrong. To my mind more owners need to come forward with Iridium plug problems on their scooters, otherwise I will not believe I am wrong about Iridium spark plugs.

I must admit, i completely forgot that your scooter does not have a separate CDI. Your scooter is a fuel injected model, and the CDI is integrated with the ECU unit. Therefore my comments hoe a Volt test should be done is not applicable on your scooter.

Anyway, I hope you will find the problem, and tell us what actually caused the problem. My intention is to buy a scooter like yours somewhere in future, and I would really appreciate as much technical information possible.

No bad feelings - good luck.

[ccemn1]

The distance from the center electrode to the ground (bent) electrode of a spark plug determines the amount of voltage needed to jump the gap, nothing else matters, except to a negligible degree the conductivity of the fuel/air mixture. Iridium, platinum and copper plugs are equal in their ability to ignite the fuel/air mixture.

I don't understand where all this mis-information about spark plugs comes from. I know in the 80's there was a lot of snake oil claims about various types of "new revolutionary spark plug design", which died away when the claims fell flat. I dare anyone to find one valid study that shows one spark plug to be superior to another.

I had iridium plugs in a Nissan truck I just sold for 178,000 miles without a hiccup.
They won't make more HP, or make a poorly tuned, or damaged motor run any better, but because they don't wear and act like a cold plug when hot, and a hot plug when cold, you will get good running longevity out of them you won't believe.
Then again, you can still drink out of wooden cups, or antler horns if you like too.

[roxyflash]

Platinum and iridium perform at a lower level then copper because they are less conductive then copper and they tend to overheat.However there longevity is better then copper in reality the copper has best performance with worst longevity that being said with a lower spark will fire better then the fancier long lasting plug.I my self don’t believe these scooters have a high out put coil.

[roxyflash]

Finally got the coil today installed it with the copper plug hit the start button popped right off.The check engine light was still on try to reset it didn’t do it right the first time try it again wouldn’t go off.Took it for a ride stopped on the side off road did the reset again it cleared.What I didn’t realize the dash told me me what the code was when it was resetting it.Showed the 37 and didn’t even have to count the flashes.So being the scooter had the iridium plug when I bought it then was having start issues last year I put another iridium plug in it and wouldn’t start this year.So I’m sticking with the copper plug.The scooter only has 2000 miles on it don’t know why the coil went bad looked like new so from what I’m thinking this will be it’s 4 th plug.

[scooterfan]

It sounds like you installed a new coil but you didn’t try to start the scooter with the Iridium plug since the new coil has been installed ?

[KymcoRockr]

I'm trying to find an iridium plug for my Kymco X-Town 300 i, but can't seem to find one anywhere online.
Does anyone have a clue if these is an iridium plug available for this model?

There is. GIYF.
I have gone from using NGK to using Denso plugs, because I've had too many very low mileage NGK plugs stop firing under compression lately. This is something that tricks a lot of people, because you will pull the plug out and hold it against the frame, and it sparks like crazy, but back in the bike, it won't start. A friend of mine imports vehicle parts, and he said there are too many people in
China selling plugs that say NGK for about what you would pay for a Chinese brand. He's been asked before if he wanted to buy belts that are gates, or ones that say gates on them. The price for the later is quite a bit less, apparently, so draw your own conclusions. I did, and I think it's more reliable to go with a brand that isn't quite so popular and tempting to copy.  Other than that, I think that if you take someone that really believes there's a difference between plugs and told them that two scooters with the same plug had different plugs, and one was their personal "best," brand and the other their "worst," brand,  that person could discern a performance difference between the two plugs after a short ride around the block. On the other hand, if you put ten different plugs in ten different scooters and said they were all the same, someone who really notices a difference between spark plugs would be able to tell they were all the same.
As far as fouling is concerned, on an EFI Scooter the problem is usually either a bad battery or a bad charging system, usually the Regulator or coil, so the scooter is running off the battery and it's running low. Because so many people are obsessed with using battery tenders, and do relatively short rides, a bad battery can cause problems for years before it finally packs it in for good.

[scooterfan]

I have gone from using NGK to using Denso plugs, because I've had too many very low mileage NGK plugs stop firing under compression lately.

Did you refer to NGK iridium spark plugs on a Kymco scooter, or NGK spark plugs in general ?

 I assume you mean you don't experience problems with  Denso iridium spark plugs on your scooter, but you experienced problems with NGK iridium spark plugs on the same scooter previously ?

[KymcoRockr]

Just the ones that quit working. ONe was in a Kymco, a couple were in other scooters. I've previously only seen this with very low end plugs. I really don't think it matters what you put it in, if a plug doesn't fire, the results are going to be the same. The problems I've been seeing with NGK plugs were not with the Iridium versions.

[roxyflash]

It sounds like you installed a new coil but you didn’t try to start the scooter with the Iridium plug since the new coil has been installed ?

.    No I didn’t I have the first iridium NGK that came with bike I have the second iridium plug that has about 200 miles on it that’s the one that wouldn’t start.I bought a new copper plug it was for a spare I didn’t want to spend the extra 10 dollars when I bought the iridium last year so I bought a cheap autolite for 1.69 as a spare for my tool kit.So I used the new plug with new coil I hit the starter it started instantly this is with the battery that was in the scooter.When I bought the iridium the guy said why do you want the cheaper plug the iridium will last forever but I wanted a spare.I also have a enduro bike Suzuki PE 175 it was running poorly was just rebuilt probably rode it 6 times I had a Denso u groove plug not sure how it ended up in my toolbox but put it in the Suzuki couldn’t believe how good it made it run the NGK was just a standard plug I also run gas rc boats with zenoah engine for what ever reason never had a issue with the small NGK plugs .I have dunked the boats many of times and never fouled one out I use klotz oil in my dirt bike and zenoahs at 32 to one.                                                                                                                                     

[Viper254]

It may be an irrelevant comment, but when I was in the trade (left 2015) of buying parts, we were having huge amounts of problems with fake NGK plugs working their way into the supply chain, or "real" NGKs that weren't up to UK standard; imports.

I think that these creeping their way into our bikes over the last 10 years has damaged their reputation a bit. It hasn't really happened to denso, which is why I think the above comment about changing to their plugs is generally a pretty sound plan.

[scooterfan]

Reading about the misfortune with NGK plugs I think part of a solution will be only to buy NGK spark plugs from a well known, reputable dealer.
For example - I know for a fact that all NGK spark plugs available at Autozone branches in South Africa get imported by Autozone directly from the factory in Japan.
I know this as a fact - because during the early days of my Honda NC700 ownership I negotiated with Autozone Head Office in South Africa to start importing NGK Iridium spark plugs for Honda NC700 motorcycles.
At the time the price for Iridium plugs at Honda was completely insane, therefore I started negotiations with Autozone head office. Autozone initially informed me about their process of importing NGK spark plugs, and long story short - we ended up having the exact, high quality NGK product, directly from Japan - available at Autozone branches for about 1/4 of the price at Honda.

[kneeslider]

It may be an irrelevant comment, but when I was in the trade (left 2015) of buying parts, we were having huge amounts of problems with fake NGK plugs working their way into the supply chain, or "real" NGKs that weren't up to UK standard; imports.

I think that these creeping their way into our bikes over the last 10 years has damaged their reputation a bit. It hasn't really happened to denso, which is why I think the above comment about changing to their plugs is generally a pretty sound plan.

Sorry but Denso is having huge issues with replica parts. In Malaysia the fake Denso market is so big that to ensure you get the deal item, you should only go direct to an authorised dealer/workshop.

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