Should a new Downtown 350i consume/burn oil?

[Forbes1964]

You all have expressed opinions which have merit. But if scooters are anything like automobiles, there’s a rhyme and reason to dealing with claims of  excess oil consumption in order for a dealer to deal with it and for the manufacturer to honor any warranty. It’s performed AFTER the break in period. The customer should suggest an “OIL CONSUMPTION TEST “ in order to begin the process.
1. It MUST be documented by an oil consumption test per the manufacturer. With Ford that includes THE DEALER performing an oil change, marking the level on the dipstick, and marking the drain plug , so  it can be detected if the customer tampers with the drain plug after it leaves. (Not all customers are honest either).
2. The miles are recorded and documented.
3. The customer drives in a normal manner and regularly checks the oil until A. The level drops by a certain amount or B. The mileage is reached for the next oil change. He can check it himself or bring it to the dealer during this time.
4. The customer brings it back to the dealer for them to document the findings and record the mileage.
5 the findings are compared with the OFFICIAL manufacturer’s specifications. This is typically allows more consumption than typical to allow for the fact that some indeed do drive their vehicles like a bat from the underworld. But in practice, most vehicles either pass with flying colors or fail miserably. Very few either barely pass or barely fail.

If these procedures are not followed precisely and the dealer replaces an engine based on just the customer’s word, the DEALER will end up EATING the repair.
 The dealer will have WRITTEN information from the manufacturer which states the allowable oil consumption, not just him expressing an opinion. Simply taking either the dealers word for it is not sufficient.
Dealers lie. Customers lie. Improper oil is sometimes used. Mistakes are made during oil changes. But the oil consumption test with DOCUMENTED results does not lie. I have no idea what KYMCO’s process is. But I’m sure they have some Official process.  The customer should insist that it’s followed rather than the dealer just saying “looks ok to me”. Good luck sir.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Vision4]

You all have expressed opinions which have merit. But if scooters are anything like automobiles, there’s a rhyme and reason to dealing with claims of  excess oil consumption in order for a dealer to deal with it and for the manufacturer to honor any warranty. It’s performed AFTER the break in period. The customer should suggest an “OIL CONSUMPTION TEST “ in order to begin the process.
1. It MUST be documented by an oil consumption test per the manufacturer. With Ford that includes THE DEALER performing an oil change, marking the level on the dipstick, and marking the drain plug , so  it can be detected if the customer tampers with the drain plug after it leaves. (Not all customers are honest either).
2. The miles are recorded and documented.
3. The customer drives in a normal manner and regularly checks the oil until A. The level drops by a certain amount or B. The mileage is reached for the next oil change. He can check it himself or bring it to the dealer during this time.
4. The customer brings it back to the dealer for them to document the findings and record the mileage.
5 the findings are compared with the OFFICIAL manufacturer’s specifications. This is typically allows more consumption than typical to allow for the fact that some indeed do drive their vehicles like a bat from the underworld. But in practice, most vehicles either pass with flying colors or fail miserably. Very few either barely pass or barely fail.

If these procedures are not followed precisely and the dealer replaces an engine based on just the customer’s word, the DEALER will end up EATING the repair.
 The dealer will have WRITTEN information from the manufacturer which states the allowable oil consumption, not just him expressing an opinion. Simply taking either the dealers word for it is not sufficient.
Dealers lie. Customers lie. Improper oil is sometimes used. Mistakes are made during oil changes. But the oil consumption test with DOCUMENTED results does not lie. I have no idea what KYMCO’s process is. But I’m sure they have some Official process.  The customer should insist that it’s followed rather than the dealer just saying “looks ok to me”. Good luck sir.

Thanks a lot for this explanation! that was an interesting read.
I will ask them to do an oil consumption test though i doubt they'll agree. honestly, i doubt they even do those in general, judging by their attitude.

[Forbes1964]

Thanks a lot for this explanation! that was an interesting read.
I will ask them to do an oil consumption test though i doubt they'll agree. honestly, i doubt they even do those in general, judging by their attitude.

Again, I don’t know about Kymco. But with cars, we have no problem performing them because it ensures that the vehicle had the proper oil in it. It satisfies the customer that we made an honest attempt to verify their problem. It either EXONERATES us and Proves That the vehicle is NOT using oil as they claim. Or it gives us cover and makes sure WE get PAID by the manufacturer if there’s actually a verifiable problem.

At the very least, ask them to SHOW YOU where Kymco says that x amount of oil consumption is acceptable after the break-in period. Then go from there. Contact Kymco if there’s anyway possible, and get them involved. They will often tell you and the dealer how to properly verify or rule out the problem.
If the dealer knows they’ll be reimbursed for their efforts , they are more likely to be of assistance. After all WARRANTY work is still work. It pays them  too . There’s just more paperwork for them. But they will get paid if the manufacturer authorizes their efforts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Vision4]

I just found something extremly depressing.

this is from an official Kymco workshop/service manual for Downtown 125i:

That scooter has a similar single cylinder 4-stroke engine like mine so that's probably written in my bike's manual as well.

that blows the steam out of my case.

they can just claim that's "natural oil consumption" and i have no way to prove otherwise.

what the hell is even a natural oil consumption? i went through the whole manual and there's not another word on that subject. like how much oil consumption is considered "natural"? and how can you tell if an oil decrease is "natural" or not?. And why would they mention it? that's a perfect cover up. just call it "natural consumption" so you dont have to do s*** when someone buys your bike and the engine is f***** up.

apparently it's not my dealers attidute. it's Kymco themselves who claim that oil decrease is normal.
I dont see anything i can do now other then just live with that.

unbelievble.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Please give your engine more miles of break in.
I wonder if a different oil will reduce consumption?
(Scion has an oil consumption procedure which involves a dealer sealed dip stick and fill cap)
There are some consumption limits which, while troubling to the owner, are considered within acceptable tolerances by the manufacturer.
Hopefully your situation will improve in time.
Stig

[scooterfan]

..........that blows the steam out of my case.

they can just claim that's "natural oil consumption" and i have no way to prove otherwise.

what the hell is even a natural oil consumption? i went through the whole manual and there's not another word on that subject. like how much oil consumption is considered "natural"? and how can you tell if an oil decrease is "natural" or not?. And why would they mention it? that's a perfect cover up. just call it "natural consumption" so you dont have to do s*** when someone buys your bike and the engine is f***** up.

apparently it's not my dealers attidute. it's Kymco themselves who claim that oil decrease is normal.
I dont see anything i can do now other then just live with that.

unbelievble.

You got it - that’s how most manufacturers roll.

For example, my son in the US is a qualified mechanic. He got his training at an official training center for well known cars from European origin.
About three or four years ago one of my brothers in law in South Africa bough himself a sports car - the same brand as the brand my son got his training on.
Right from the start my brother in law was complaining about the car’s oil consumption. He went back to the agents many times, without solving anything.

When I told my son about this car’s oil consuption, he told me “all those models have a problem with oil consumption, we know about the problem - the piston ring gaps on those engins are too big”.

[Forbes1964]

Again, while manufacturers cover their rears by saying that some oil consumption is normal, they also usually have some guidelines WRITTEN Somewhere for their dealers to go by.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Forbes1964]

Please give your engine more miles of break in.
I wonder if a different oil will reduce consumption?
(Scion has an oil consumption procedure which involves a dealer sealed dip stick and fill cap)
There are some consumption limits which, while troubling to the owner, are considered within acceptable tolerances by the manufacturer.
Hopefully your situation will improve in time.
Stig

Exactly. That’s why I was trying to explain. Manufacturers have a break in mileage that MUST be reached before they will test for oil consumption. Then they change the oil using THE MANUFACTURER’s recommended oil and mark everything. Sometimes a particular brand of oil simply runs through a particular engine even if it’s the correct weight. That’s why they use their own.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Forbes1964]

You got it - that’s how most manufacturers roll.

For example, my son in the US is a qualified mechanic. He got his training at an official training center for well known cars from European origin.
About three or four years ago one of my brothers in law in South Africa bough himself a sports car - the same brand as the brand my son got his training on.
Right from the start my brother in law was complaining about the car’s oil consumption. He went back to the agents many times, without solving anything.

When I told my son about this car’s oil consuption, he told me “all those models have a problem with oil consumption, we know about the problem - the piston ring gaps on those engins are too big”.

Even so, manufacturers still have a written standard that says “this engine should consume no more than x amount in y mileage design flaw or not. That amount may be more than we’re used to accepting, but it’s usually somewhere around 1qt/ 3000 miles for modern engines. They used to say 1qt/1500. Some may still use that standard. But ford is 1qt/3000.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[scooterfan]

Even so, manufacturers still have a written standard that says “this engine should consume no more than x amount in y mileage design flaw or not. That amount may be more than we’re used to accepting, but it’s usually somewhere around 1qt/ 3000 miles for modern engines. They used to say 1qt/1500. Some may still use that standard. But ford is 1qt/3000.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Aparently the written standard by the manufacturer I was referring to is “anything up to 1 Liter every 800 miles”. Oil consumption on this spesific model is usually lower than 1 liter/800 miles - so the manufacturer cover themselves for replacing piston rings left, right, and center.

[Forbes1964]

Aparently the written standard by the manufacturer I was referring to is “anything up to 1 Liter every 800 miles”. Oil consumption on this spesific model is usually lower than 1 liter/800 miles - so the manufacturer cover themselves for replacing piston rings left, right, and center.

WoW!!!! That standard hasn't been used for well over 20 years! And when ford has an engine that Commonly has high oil consumption, they usually come up with a fix as long as it occurs within the 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty.

[Vision4]

At the very least, ask them to SHOW YOU where Kymco says that x amount of oil consumption is acceptable after the break-in period. Then go from there. Contact Kymco if there’s anyway possible, and get them involved.

Well the mechanic did say that up to 300cc for every 1000 km is normal. Which, by the way, seems absurd to me. That would mean, given that the service intervals are 5K, that i lose 1.5 liters of oil between services! 150%.  On a brand new bike! I mean seriously, does that not sound ridiculous?
 
And as for them showing me where kymco says that, i can try that even though i doubt there's a phyisical document or something. And in anycase, they can just lie. Fabricate any document they want. How would i confirm what they say? They are the only dealer in the country, And according to what CROSSBOLT said (which i really hope will prove wrong), there's no way for me to contact Kymco. They can keep feeding me BS as much as they want.

And let me tell you something else. That bike is one for the few top sellers in the country for the past 4 years since it came out. That means there are thousends of them in the streets, Particularly in my city. And so i get a lot of chances to have small talks with other owneres in intersections and such. So far i've talked to more than 15 different owners. And, you guessed it, None of their bikes consumes oil. Not durning the break in, not after the break in and not for many thousends of miles after that. Not 300cc and not 100cc. They don't have to fill a single drop of oil in between services.

And im sure that'll still be the case after i ask another 100 owners.

So how come my engine is the only one that "naturaly" consumes oil? That's such an obvious, blatant lie.

[Vision4]

Please give your engine more miles of break in.
I wonder if a different oil will reduce consumption?

Thanks. I will give it more time and keep track. Doesn't seem like i have any other choice at this point anyway.

You meantioned different oil. I have noticed something weird. 
When the dealership changes my oil at 1000km, i noticed they put in oil in a different viscocity then recommended in the manual. 

the oil they put in is syntetic SAE 5W-40, While the oil visocity that's reccomended in the users manual is SAE 5W-50.

there are several other alternative viscocities mentioned in the manual, but none of them is 5W-40.

could that be the problem?

[scooterfan]

WoW!!!! That standard hasn't been used for well over 20 years! And when ford has an engine that Commonly has high oil consumption, they usually come up with a fix as long as it occurs within the 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty.

Completely wrong. Those models came on the market about 10 years ago. As far as I know those cars have never been re-called by the manufacturer anywhere across the word, including the USA.

[Stig / Major Tom]

could that be the problem?

"THE PROBLEM"?
No. Not that much difference between the two.
Might try talking with the service manager about alternate oils, which would still take care of your relatively new engine - while improving the rate of consumption.
Stig