Author Topic: Rear tire blues  (Read 5042 times)

john grinsel

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2019, 08:32:28 PM »
I just state facts from experience----and common knowledge from other parts of the world.  Having had 2 new Burgman 400's and 2 new SilverWings---ridden them to AK, SilverWing as far east as NB in Canada.....I never saw any of the internet jockeys out riding on their scooters....to acquire long miles  to make car tire last.

One must remember I have been riding everyday for 64 years, using bike scooter for everything---didn't get married until 65, so had plenty of money to waste on bikes, enjoyed it.   Over 75 new bikes/scooters.  My experience----modern maxi scooter with fresh set of proper tires, should be good for about 10,000 miles with no worries other than a flat now and then.

I hate to think about how much money I have wastes on bikes....but who cares?

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2019, 09:22:37 PM »
has any one tried a winter tire for the soft rubber for better grip , I could not find one to fit my scooter  a 150/ 70 14 with a 4 " rim width, most car tires require 6 " rims or more,.  how do you get around that ? the right size rim would cost a fortune if it waS AVAILABLE,.  I bumped the cap key,.  fat fingers! cant be old?????
The 155/80R13 seems like a skinny tire and the Downtown has a 13" rim like the Burgman 400.
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

john grinsel

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2019, 12:37:57 AM »
Why would anyone want to put a radial tire on scooter designed for bias??

In Germany---winter tires are required for bikes/scooters.  Simple=find winter tire bias/scooter in proper size for the bike......and of course matched front, too!   I think "winter tires" are safe for limited summer use or until they are worn out.

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2019, 02:47:13 PM »
Can we trust experts?

From today’s Ark.-Dem. Gazette -
By Walter Williams
 Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University

Former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers predicted that if Donald Trump were elected, there would be a protracted recession within 18 months. Heeding its experts, a month before the election the Washington Post ran an editorial with the headline "A President Trump could destroy the world economy."

Steve Rattner, a Democratic financier and former head of the National Economic Council, warned, "If the unlikely event happens and Trump wins, you will see a market crash of historic proportions." When Trump's electoral victory became apparent, Nobel Prize-winning economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman warned that the world was "very probably looking at a global recession, with no end in sight."

By the way, Krugman has been so wrong in so many of his economic predictions, but that doesn't stop him from making more shameless predictions.

People whom we've trusted as experts have often been wrong beyond imagination. Irving Fisher, a distinguished Yale University economics professor in 1929, predicted, "Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau." Three days later, the stock market crashed.

In 1945, regarding money spent on the Manhattan Project, Adm. William Leahy told President Harry S. Truman, "That is the biggest fool thing we have ever done. The bomb will never go off, and I speak as an expert in explosives."

In 1903, the president of the Michigan Savings Bank, advising Henry Ford's lawyer not to invest in Ford Motor Co., said, "The horse is here to stay, but the automobile is only a novelty--a fad." Confidence in the staying power of the horse was displayed by a 1916 comment of the aide-de-camp to Field Marshal Douglas Haig at a tank demonstration: "The idea that cavalry will be replaced by these iron coaches is absurd. It is little short of treasonous."

Albert Einstein predicted: "There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will." In 1899, Charles H. Duell, the U.S. commissioner of patents, said, "Everything that can be invented has been invented." Listening to its experts in 1936, the New York Times predicted, "A rocket will never be able to leave the Earth's atmosphere."

To prove that it's not just academics, professionals and business people who make harebrained predictions, Hall of Fame baseball player Tris Speaker's 1919 advice about Babe Ruth was, "Taking the best left-handed pitcher in baseball and converting him into a right fielder is one of the dumbest things I ever heard." For those of us not familiar with baseball, Babe Ruth was one of the greatest outfielders who ever played the game.

The world's geniuses are by no means exempt from out-and-out nonsense. Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727) was probably the greatest scientist of all time. He laid the foundation for classical mechanics; he transformed our understanding of physics, mathematics and astronomy. What's not widely known is that Newton spent most of his waking hours on alchemy. Some of his crackpot experiments included trying to turn lead into gold. He wrote volumes on alchemy, but after his death, Britain's Royal Society deemed that they were "not fit to be printed."

Then there's mathematical physicist and engineer Lord Kelvin (1824-1907), whose major contribution was in thermodynamics. Kelvin is widely recognized for determining the correct value of absolute zero, approximately minus 273.15 degrees Celsius or minus 459.67 degrees Fahrenheit. In honor of his achievement, extremely high and extremely low temperatures are expressed in units called kelvins.

To prove that one can be a genius in one area and an idiot in another, Kelvin challenged geologists by saying that the Earth is between 20 million and 100 million years old. Kelvin predicted, "X-rays will prove to be a hoax." And he told us, "I can state flatly that heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."

The point of all this is to say that we can listen to experts, but take what they predict with a grain or two of salt.

------------v------------

Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University.

Editorial on 07/26/2018

Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

john grinsel

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2019, 08:41:16 PM »
You can trust me.....my experience is long and in some cases expensive!  Waiting for long trip test of car rear tire and how she handles....in rain,too.

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2019, 12:07:25 AM »
Me, too!
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2019, 07:14:34 PM »
Here should be a picture of the DT with rear car tire 155/80R13 on the bike. Lighting not good, just outline
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

Stig / Major Tom

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2019, 09:20:21 PM »
OK, throw a Moon Pie on a blanket, get down there with a camera, or cell phone with flash, and give us a photo of where the beef meets the road on the side stand.
Your present picture, nice, reminds me somehow of the beefy hind quarters of a certain sister-in-law. Chunky back there. Your tire, I mean.

Stig
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Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2019, 10:09:16 PM »
Me, too! Har, har! Who gonna throw the Moon pie?  I hear those go well with an RC cola....
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

stuo

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2019, 10:48:38 PM »
Karl,

I think you are making a very serious mistake. When we lean into a turn the small strip of rubber on the road that keeps us attached to the road is what? an inch wide? I have a broken collar bone from using a cheap motorcycle tire that didn't hold its grip in a turn, and that was a motorcycle tire.

You intend to use a car tire, a tire that is not designed to ride on its edge. There's a reason motorcycle tires wear fast: the rubber is soft so it will grip better. I have been to mc races where the tires are trash after 100 miles: the sides are completely worn down, which is why they can ride them so far leaned over at high speed: the rubber is soft and "sticky".  Touring tires will last longer than sport tires but still not nearly as long as a car tire but that's the price we pay for riding, a small price in my opinion.
2009 GV 250

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2019, 01:44:33 AM »
Studying all the info on this before venturing my physical well-being revealed in part the "chicken strips" at the edges of the motorcycle-type scooter tires. This unused part of the eliptical tread cross-section shows that I don't lean that much even when I really bore through a turn! There is, for some reason, a slight curve to the tread of this car tire including a radius at the edge. I cruise upright most of the time like most other highway cruisers. That mission profile is what turns the soft compound tires into junk in less than 6000 miles. I will continue to report on this so if I bust my butt, you will know about it. Notvreally too worried since hundreds of Burgman riders have been doing this for over a decade. So far, no crashes, damage or death have resulted from car tires.
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

klaviator

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2019, 10:22:45 AM »
I have a number of friends who have run car tires on their motorcycles.  One put one on his V strom 1000 to see for himself whether or not it was dangerous like all the "experts" predicted.  He ran it as hard as he could.  He cornered hard to see if it would make hime crash.  He mounted a camera just behind the rear wheel to see what happened in curves.  The camera showed that the tire flexed and had plenty of rubber on the road.

Eventually he put a motorcycle tire back on because it just felt better.

I have ridden with a number of riders with CTs on their bikes.  All of them were able to ride their bikes at the limits in the curves.  I had a guy on a Goldwing following me on some curvy roads.  I could hear sonds of scraping metal behind me as he had that wing leaned way over.  The tire never slipped.  This guy admitted that a MC tire would be easier to ride on curvy roads.  He mounted a CT for two reasons.  First was that he lived on a dirt road and the CT handled much better on the dirt.  Second was that he had a run flat tire which is not available in MC tires.

A lot of serious long distance riders run CTs because MC tires just don't last long enough for some of them to complete their trips without a tire change.

I have seen numerous discussions on forums about CTs.  There are hundreds of riders who have run CTs without issues and on the other side of the argument are "experts" with theories about why CTs are dangerous or won't work.

I have not personally put a CT on any of my bikes but I'm tempted to put one on my Majesty.  I have yet to find a scooter tire that lasts even 6,000  miles on the rear of that scooter.

I Ride Therefore I Am

Rocket City, Al

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2019, 02:35:56 PM »
I have a number of friends who have run car tires on their motorcycles.  One put one on his V strom 1000 to see for himself whether or not it was dangerous like all the "experts" predicted.  He ran it as hard as he could.  He cornered hard to see if it would make hime crash.  He mounted a camera just behind the rear wheel to see what happened in curves.  The camera showed that the tire flexed and had plenty of rubber on the road.



Eventually he put a motorcycle tire back on because it just felt better.

I have ridden with a number of riders with CTs on their bikes.  All of them were able to ride their bikes at the limits in the curves.  I had a guy on a Goldwing following me on some curvy roads.  I could hear sonds of scraping metal behind me as he had that wing leaned way over.  The tire never slipped.  This guy admitted that a MC tire would be easier to ride on curvy roads.  He mounted a CT for two reasons.  First was that he lived on a dirt road and the CT handled much better on the dirt.  Second was that he had a run flat tire which is not available in MC tires.

A lot of serious long distance riders run CTs because MC tires just don't last long enough for some of them to complete their trips without a tire change.

I have seen numerous discussions on forums about CTs.  There are hundreds of riders who have run CTs without issues and on the other side of the argument are "experts" with theories about why CTs are dangerous or won't work.

I have not personally put a CT on any of my bikes but I'm tempted to put one on my Majesty.  I have yet to find a scooter tire that lasts even 6,000  miles on the rear of that scooter.

This is from a guy who told me and showed me pictures of riding tight corners heeled over like Isle of Mann!  Klav loves to ride hot! The guy on the Goldwing scraping metal has to be testimony.

Maybe, eventually, this will begin to influence tire manufacturers that the customer wants a rear tire that does not wear so quickly! We are "tired" of the "we always done it that way" philosphy of motorcycle/scooter tires!

Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

stuo

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #58 on: August 09, 2019, 09:42:35 PM »
Gotta love this forum!

Please keep us posted on your experience with a car tire, Karl. Especially let us know if you crash and die. Think of how many lives you could save....
2009 GV 250

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Rear tire blues
« Reply #59 on: August 09, 2019, 11:01:44 PM »
Gotta love this forum!

Please keep us posted on your experience with a car tire, Karl. Especially let us know if you crash and die. Think of how many lives you could save....

Har, har! Have made special provisions for a blind post if I splat! I do appreciate your genuine (well, it seemed genuine!) concern in your previous comment. My recommendation is to read the same stuff about "darksiding" that I have. Considering, for discussion, that half of the CT users are lying. There are still hundreds of users writing stuff like klaviator posted. His description does not cover EVERY situation we can and have faced. But add all the rest and you get a good, very large sample. ADVrider.com even has posters that relate the insurance companies do not consider car tires on motorcycles a significant factor in crash causes. The riders on ADVrider, the Burgman forum and the Darkside Tire Info center tend to be a serious lot with outrageous senses of humor. These riders cover collectively millions of miles, like our John Grinsel, but on car tires. There simply HAS to be something to it! And Ima gonna find out! Thanks again for your concern. Let's see where it leads.....
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

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