Kymco Diagnostic Tool in the UK?

[118118]

Got an issue with my Agillity 16 Plus - 125 (2017) The orange CELP is on all the time.
Has anyone in the UK got the Kymco Diagnostic tool I could borrow / hire? 

Stuart - in the East Midlands

[Stig / Major Tom]

Got an issue with my Agillity 16 Plus - 125 (2017) The orange CELP is on all the time.
Has anyone in the UK got the Kymco Diagnostic tool I could borrow / hire? 

Stuart - in the East Midlands

Is it flashing fault codes (light blinks)?
Or, does your particular scooter not have that feature?
On some Kymcos the flashing corresponds to system faults.
Stig

[118118]

Hi Stig,

I've been chatting to Crossbolt for a couple of days on the subject. See tech forum.
http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=28656.0

[JJJoseph]

I think I replied to this same query in another thread, but I'll repeat it again just to make it easy to follow:

I've raised this same issue a couple of times, but there's a hard core of resistance here to new technology.  Some members follow the 1970s method of trying to decode blinking lights, but this is a total dead-end with new EFI machines.  The only way to diagnose these machines is to use the proper diagnostic tools.  Every dealer has the diagnostics device and knows how to use it, but if you don't have a local dealer, there's no answer - except for trying to count the blinking light pattern.  Let me share a story with you: About 30 years ago I had an old Chevy van with a CEL that would give one long blink followed by 2 short blinks. Or it was the other way round.  This indicated either "12" - or "21".  I asked the GM dealer what  was it trying to say.  He said "12" meant the throttle-body fuel injection needed replacement, and a "21" meant the ABS system needed repair.  The van otherwise ran fine.  I asked how do I know which message it's trying to tell me.  He said,"First you replace the fuel injectors.  If the light is still blinking, it's a "21", not a "12", and you need to replace the ABS system.  It's like flipping a coin.  In the end, I put a piece of black electrical tape over the blinking light and drove it for another 100,000km.  It was still blinking when I sold it years later.

The take-away: Don't buy an EFI machine unless you have access to the diagnostic tools, either your own or the dealer's - it doesn't matter which.  Without the tools you'll never figure out what it's trying to tell you!

[scooterfan]

The take-away: Don't buy an EFI machine unless you have access to the diagnostic tools, either your own or the dealer's - it doesn't matter which.  Without the tools you'll never figure out what it's trying to tell you!

My thought as well. Before I buy any scooter with EFI, my intention is to get hold of an diagnostic tool which is suitable for the specific model in advance. If I can't get hold of a suitable diagnostic tool, I will rather stay away from the scooter and stick to the biggest model with ordinary carburetor.

To my experience keeping anything with a carb running is dead easy, and far cheaper to run in the longer term. An EFI model without access to a proper diagnostic tool will simply destroy the feeling of "freedom" I get from ordinary carb models.

[klaviator]

When had issues with my Like 150i's brakes earlier this year not a single dealer in the country had the proper cable to plug into the ECU for that new model of scooter.  I had to wait nearly 2 months for Kymco to send a cable from Taiwan to my dealer. 

[Stig / Major Tom]

When had issues with my Like 150i's brakes earlier this year not a single dealer in the country had the proper cable to plug into the ECU for that new model of scooter.  I had to wait nearly 2 months for Kymco to send a cable from Taiwan to my dealer. 

Many say, "never buy 1st year model!"
Was only first year for USA.
We know that Kymco is not industry leader in N America - but their value is great. What you get for the $.
There are alternatives.... at a greater price, and much better support. And, yeah I was down for several months wsiting to resolve a watranty issue involving the diag. tool. Bought a beautiful Honda while waiting😊
So far, I'm good with my Kymco package.
Stig

[klaviator]

Luckily this happened during the winter when I don't ride as much.  I also had four other bikes to ride including my old Super 8. 

[Forbes1964]

I think I replied to this same query in another thread, but I'll repeat it again just to make it easy to follow:

I've raised this same issue a couple of times, but there's a hard core of resistance here to new technology.  Some members follow the 1970s method of trying to decode blinking lights, but this is a total dead-end with new EFI machines.  The only way to diagnose these machines is to use the proper diagnostic tools.  Every dealer has the diagnostics device and knows how to use it, but if you don't have a local dealer, there's no answer - except for trying to count the blinking light pattern.  Let me share a story with you: About 30 years ago I had an old Chevy van with a CEL that would give one long blink followed by 2 short blinks. Or it was the other way round.  This indicated either "12" - or "21".  I asked the GM dealer what  was it trying to say.  He said "12" meant the throttle-body fuel injection needed replacement, and a "21" meant the ABS system needed repair.  The van otherwise ran fine.  I asked how do I know which message it's trying to tell me.  He said,"First you replace the fuel injectors.  If the light is still blinking, it's a "21", not a "12", and you need to replace the ABS system.  It's like flipping a coin.  In the end, I put a piece of black electrical tape over the blinking light and drove it for another 100,000km.  It was still blinking when I sold it years later.

The take-away: Don't buy an EFI machine unless you have access to the diagnostic tools, either your own or the dealer's - it doesn't matter which.  Without the tools you'll never figure out what it's trying to tell you!

The Chevy dealer purposely misled you . (Yes. Some did that). I’m a mechanic that’s been working on cars since before check engine lights. 1. The check engine light in a older vehicle did not diagnose abs issues. 2.  A 12 was the code that indicated the beginning of the test then it was followed by the actual problem code. A 21 indicated a fault in the throttle position sensor (a simple fix). Looking back based on my memory, you probably had a 12 followed by a 21 because the 12 ALWAYS flashed at the beginning AND when the actual trouble codes finished. I think each code would flash 3 times before moving to the next code. So 12 would flash three times, then 21 would flash 3 times, then back to 12, and so forth. Again, the dealer misled you on PURPOSE. Likewise, if we read the manual for the scooter, it will give the flash pattern . It’s more difficult without the proper scan tool. But it’s not a guessing game as some give the impression.

30 years late diagnosis LOL [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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[CROSSBOLT]

A dealer mislead a customer? Say it ain't so!

[scooterfan]

A dealer mislead a customer? Say it ain't so!

At this side of the pond it's almost impossible to find a dealer (most brands) who is not trying to mislead customers. Specially when repairs are involved. That's part of the reason why I would rather not buy an EFI scooter without buying a diagnostic tool in advance.

[Stig / Major Tom]

At this side of the pond it's almost impossible to find a dealer (most brands) who is not trying to mislead customers. Specially when repairs are involved. That's part of the reason why I would rather not buy an EFI scooter without buying a diagnostic tool in advance.

Obviously your new (and newish) scooter choices are going to be very, very limited if you refuse to own an EFI scooter.
You might want to fully explore just what a home mechanic, no matter how clever, can and cannot accomplish with a factory Diagnostic Tool in your hand.
Perhaps you would be more at peace if you stayed with carbed scooters - especially since you prefer to 'adjust/repair' yourself, and since, sadly, you so distrust your nation's mechanics.
EFI scooters do not require any tinkering. In fact, to do so can really mess one up.
Myself, I don't imagine mechanics to be one bit more, or less, dishonest than any other of us tradesman.


Stig

[Forbes1964]

At this side of the pond it's almost impossible to find a dealer (most brands) who is not trying to mislead customers. Specially when repairs are involved. That's part of the reason why I would rather not buy an EFI scooter without buying a diagnostic tool in advance.

Truth be told, EFI tends to be nearly problem free compared to carburetors. Very few adjustments, and very reliable, better drivability, etc. Yes, it’s more challenging when there is a problem. But they have a semi self diagnostic capability to lead you in the right direction even without a diagnostic tool . And problems seem to be few and far between. Just a thought...


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[scooterfan]

Perhaps you would be more at peace if you stayed with carbed scooters - especially since you prefer to 'adjust/repair' yourself, and since, sadly, you so distrust your nation's mechanics.
EFI scooters do not require any tinkering. In fact, to do so can really mess one up.
Myself, I don't imagine mechanics to be one bit more, or less, dishonest than any other of us tradesman.


Stig

Unfortunately you can not compare mechanics appointed by dealers in the US with many mechanics appointed by dealers in our country.

In the US no dealer will appoint a mechanic at a dealership, UNLESS the mechanic is fully qualified. I am fully aware of this, because my son in the US is a qualified Ford, Audi, and Infinity mechanic. (Due to a shoulder injury he had to leave the industry, but that's beside the point).

In our country it is quite common that dealers appoint people who are not fully qualified. Apart from that - due to poor salaries and better opportunities elsewhere, qualified mechanics often hop around from one dealership to the other. Then they often start working on different models without having proper experience or training.

I personally had several bad experiences with incompetent mechanics on my own vehicles. For example - my wife drives a Ford Focus. Some time ago she experienced a problem with the car.  At the time I was too busy at work to work on the car, and my wife took the car to a Ford dealership.
 In short - after spending a small fortune on parts and repair costs, nothing changed - they couldn't solve the problem. Complains didn't help - each time my wife was complaining they just gave explanations which didn't make sense.
 In the end I solved the problem myself by discovering the worn component by pure fluke. (Brake disc was worn - the brake pad was slightly loose and made a rattling noise).

There were more incidents, but yes - I don't trust the local tradesmen, and I have good reason not to trust them. I don't have any reason to feel bad about my feelings - many people are complaining everywhere.

[JJJoseph]

So 12 would flash three times, then 21 would flash 3 times, then back to 12, and so forth.

LOL!  Thanks for the 30 years later diagnosis.  My memory may have faded, too.  Regardless, there's enough incentive to stay away from unsupported diagnostics wherever they come from!  Don't get me wrong - I love electronic systems, but I don't get too excited about them if they're not properly supported by the manufacturer (and the dealers).  This is especially important if the Kymco dealers are 500 miles apart!