Author Topic: People 50 2T Upgrade Paths  (Read 3244 times)

SEANIA

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People 50 2T Upgrade Paths
« on: September 15, 2019, 02:54:59 AM »
Noticed a lot of people asking the same questions in various places along the lines of "how do I max this bike?" and "what's the best X I can get for it?" ETC. So Here's what I've learned over the time of maxing out mine for each part. Am not good at introductions, so I'ma just start.

EXHAUSTS
The People 50 2t only really has 3 options for pipes you can readily buy. The LeoVinceTT, stock and stock variants, and the Arrow Extreme. Well, more if you count Tecnigas's options, but everyone seems to give them bad reviews and ignore them as a whole.

The stock gives you a good lower RPM take-off, and can be used with all stock settings- derestricted or otherwise. It limits higher RPMs though, and doesn't have that great of a top given the lower RPM power band. The heavy 9 gram stock weights are perfect for it, and keep the bike in that power band. The 9 gram weights do mean that you can't set it to 2 stroke at idle, and it will 4 stroke at all usable idle settings.

The LeoVinceTT is the best option for top speed. It's the largest pipe for the People50, and likes to hang around 8500 RPM for power on 70cc bores, and right below the stock cranks stable line for RPM on 50cc bores. It will however, kill your low end.
On stock 9gram weights, it won't be able to go over 30mph without going downhill to get the revs up into its use range. It's designed to be used with 5.5 gram weights on the stock bore. Which LeoVince thankfully supplies in the box with it. There are also 7.5 gram weights in the box for 70cc bores. Since it is a expansion pipe, changing the carbs main jet from a 75 (most years) to a 82 is recommended. The pipe is, however, restricted by stock for road use in europe, and requires you take a file/dremel/ETC to a single weld point to remove it for full use.

The Arrow Extreme is the smaller option of the two true expansion pipes. No special weight tuning is required with it like the LeoVinceTT to be usable, but is still recommended for the best performance. The smaller expansion area lets it keep the stock weights, while adding a bit more power over the stock pipe. Is a solid bolt-on-only pipe not requireing any adjustments, but still benefiting from them if you want to put in the effort. I wouldn't use a bore kit with it unless you plan on pairing it with excessively heavy weights to keep the RPM low and the bore in the pipes usable range.

TIRES

The stock tires are quality and don't need to be replaced/changed to get good traction, but-
If you'd like to increase the top speed. Changing the rear tire from the stock 100/80-16, to a 120/80-16, will net you +5% to your top speed. Which isn't much, but can be the difference between the bike screaming and shaking like crazy to try and maintain 50, and it buzzing along happily at 50. The recommended tires in this size are Pirelli Angel tires, or Michelin City Grip depending on which you can get easier/cheaper in your country. Note, a 120/80-16 is the largest tire you can fit on the rear. I'd recomened keeping the front at the stock size tire, but changing it to the same model of tire. This will keep you from having to adjust the speedo, that takes readings from the front axle.

Cylinders Bores
Your two fully kitted options come from Mallosi and Polini. Mallosi's comes with carbon fiber reeds, and Polini's has the easier to grip piston pin clips. Both cost about the same now (though Polini's was usually sold for a bit more). Most people opt for the Mallosi kit. There are other "cheaper" cylinders, but that's in quotation as they either have no head, or occasionally not even a piston. Buying the separate parts, brings them up to the same price as full kits usually, so, defeats the purpose.  There isn't much in the way of benchmarks for either, but most people choose Mallosi's. The power guesstimate for both is 8 to 10 HP, as no one has done dyno runs on Kymcos 2 stroke bores it seems.

Derestricting the airbox
The airbox has a small snorkel that limits the air intake (even on the smallest stock carb). Removing that tube (open the air box and just yank it back and forth till it comes free), and widening the opening for it out to full size, will increase the air intake. Since you increased the air intake , you'll need a much larger jet. The smallest it will work with on stock, is a combination of unplgging the "choke" (isn't a actual choke, but is a enricher) so it's always on, and a size 82 jet (average. area/altitude/temp/ETC effecting). The stock carb needle is non adjustable. I've been trying a few sizes to see what works best without disabling the enricher shutoff, but the size will range from anywhere between 90, to 120, depending on your location.

The end result is higher "free" power, but at higher fuel consumption. This is arguably better then any of the aftermarket "performance" filters. As those filters have a extremely small filter area to pull air through. Where as the stock has a nice large flat filter that can pull air in with less restriction. A cone filter is the worst thing you can put on in terms of airflow. A open air foam filter won't restrict much, but will easily become covered in debri that would otherwise never have been sucked into the stock box. I'd recommend replacing the stock filter in the box, with a highly breathable one. Buy a square of the foam (it's cheap, like gasket paper) and cut yourself out a piece for the box.

This should give the same effect as using a larger carb on the stock airbox (in that you increased airflow), but for next to nothing (maybe 10$, if that, for a jet+piece of foam). Seriously though, stock air boxes are extremely under-estimated.

Variator/GearReduction

Assuming you've already derestricted the variator,changed out the weights to match your parts and rider weight, and set the torque spring and clutch springs to where you want them- there's not much you can do. You can't fit in a oversized variator without removing the starter and grinding a bit out of the case support braces. Meaning you're kinda stuck there. If you wanted to remove the teeth off the variator for the starter- that'd reduce rotational mass and technically let you have more power, but lets be honest in that removing that or the auto mixer doesn't do anything noticeable, and is only for racing eeking out everything last drop. Same goes for investing in a pricey aftermarket variator of the same size. As Kymco's stock one is already of high enough quality to not cause any real issues, making any improvments to weight or cooling not all that usefull.

The final gear ratio is stuck at stock. Jasil allegedly makes a kit with the part number of RP204004 ,but I've never heard of anyone trying it.  Supposedly it "raises top speed +18%", but tooth/ratio numbers are not given from Jasil. If anyone wants to buy it, and try it out- leme know how that goes. I'm talking to a friend to see if they can help me make a CAD file for a set to give to a machine shop to make, but that'll be a ways off, and will likely be cost prohibitive.

The Sad Truth

We can get tons of power out of this bike. The issue is that no matter how much power we throw at it- we're stuck hitting a top gear ceiling that limits it to around 55 max. Unless you're into making a 0 to 50 rocket, it's a bit of an issue when it has enough power to be hitting between 60 to 70mph.

If anyone has input to add, let me know. Especially for the final drive issue. The large rims and low profile tires, let most tires for it get a S raiting. I want to do 65 right lane highway with mine. Which would make it fully usable as a motorcycle. Instead of being limited to 55mph and below roads.

scooterfan

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Re: People 50 2T Upgrade Paths
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2019, 06:31:48 AM »
Brilliant reading. Could be very useful to give my ‘lil 125 some extra power...
Life is a journey. Just spend some time, and enjoy the trip.

SEANIA

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Re: People 50 2T Upgrade Paths
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2019, 11:40:45 AM »
*cracks knuckles*

Ok, I've been digging into my little Kymco more to try to dig more top end out of it. Turns out, there are at least 4 models of Kymco People 50. All with the same exact name, and no easy short hand way to reference them on sites. Not People S 50, but just People 50. Neat, huh? Well, also frustrating since not all of them used the same engine, and sites tend to not specify which they're referring too- fun. Kymco uses different model numbers for different regions too, and I havent been able to figure out what the Europe model number of mine is realted too- which we all know is where most the scooter aftermarket is made and imported from.

To keep things clear. I have a US sold, 2005 BA10AD, acording to Kymco's own website Vin check for their bikes. However, mine was sold by a dealer who also carried Genuine scooters as well, and whom also carried various other stock parts for their Kymcos. From which they added a back seat to (which looks OEM), and a trunk from Genuine that color matched and had a seat back on it- of which I took off. Also, the exhausts mentioned, being the only ones easily buyable within the US, without importing that customs may or may not intercept.

-The Quest for More Gearing-

The GearBox

Learned some interesting stuff while digging deeper. Turns out, Kymco does seem to  have engine model numbers, but no one uses them in reference. They also seem to have gear box model numbers, but the model number seems to only relate to the gear layout used, and not the casing around it. So bolt holes, fluid fill and drain holes, and I'll assume variator and rim tooth patterns, can vary between them.

The engine model number on mine is: KFA6
The gearbox oreintation number is: E08

The gearbox number here is important, and you can check why this for yourself, as other higher CC bikes with higher top speeds from Kymco use the same orientation.
Which means, if the higher CC bikes have a different gear ratio used to get their higher speeds- we might be able to swap in the gear reduction from those bikes. Granted it might mean a different rim, and/or rear variator, will be needed, but that's a worth while trade off to me.

Speaking of, if anyone knows where I can get a gear set from those for cheap- let me know. Better yet- if you know someone with one or have one- get really good pictures of those gears and where they go with rulers galore. If their holes line up- I don't care if it'd go outside our gear box cover, I will make them boys fit! Same with the diameter of them. Can always order different sized bearings that'll fit the diameter of both the casing and them.


-Variators-

I mentioned grinding at the case. Well, the other day I did that! I noticed the outer side of the front variator had face left untouched, aswell as a bit of the torque face. So I tried a few different larger inside faces, till I found one that worked. However, it was a hair over the max, and conflicted with the part of the casing that covered the starter. I took out my dremel, and thinned out the part of it that it would roate over. The casing there is quite thick, and was able to remove enough without breaking through. After a few rides, no cracks have formed yet over the spot thinned out.

This did change the acceleration curve slightly. The lead in is more shallow, and lets it rev up into peak power band, before gearing into the higher ratios. Unlike the stock that's tuned for torque, and dumps straight into higher ratios.

The stock belt was not able to fill out the face further. Allegedly it's a 720? I had a stock PGO belt from a Genuine Roughhouse 50 that was all of maybe 10mm larger. My room mate borrowed my tape, but when I ran something else around the edge to check (marking the spot on where each lapped), it was indeed larger.  It seemed to add another 1 or 2 mph before running out.

I have a 757 belt, and 748 belt, ordered to come in.
The 748 appertnly goes to kymco's bikes that don't use the People 50's weirdly small front variator. So I'm hoping it'll be the perfect size. The 757 was 10$, and figured why not. A 788 I had from a 1PE40QMB, was too large.

Another possible option, would be to put in a thicker front variator sleeve on size with the limiter, and bore out the variator to fit. This would keep a larger belt from going too far up the torque face, and let us use longer belts without worry. Additionally, am looking into decreasing the size of the torque variator inner "shaft"(?). Which would let the belt ride higher on the front variator without the use of a different belt, while also increasing the ratio to allow for more of those sweet rear wheel rotations.

Last, terrible idea, is to get a belt with decreased tooth length. Would let it sit lower on the rear, and higher on the front, just a hair. Those teeth are already pretty short though, and I imagine lots of belt flipping would occur.


I'll take pics of it all when the new belts come in to try out. As well as reposting some really nice quality pictures of the gearbox apart that someone posted somewhere. Am currently breaking in the Polini 70cc head. So not being able to go outside gearing has been killing me, and pushed me towards finding more of said gearing. None of these gearing modifications seem to do much on their own, but when you combine all the variator stuff, with the larger rear wheel, with a high RPM crank shaft- it all comes out to equal a decent gain. Hopefully we can hit actual 50 before gearing runs out. As the speedo reads at least 5 below.
 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 11:44:52 AM by SEANIA »

SEANIA

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Re: People 50 2T Upgrade Paths
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2019, 03:53:22 PM »
UPDATES
Pics of the case modifications, and belts!

Current belt is a 747. Which is special why? It's special as it's the standard size for kymcos other bikes that use smaller 10"-13" rims. Meaning it should fill out the variator the best, hopefully.
Also have the other belts pictured. Stock, PGO RoughHouse, and the 754(?) I ordered.

https://imgur.com/a/Hmr761x

There's your imgur link. Has all the pictures and some explanation.

Less go 0_o see how this contributes to speed.

Also: swapped out the stock "pump" for a larger one. Was worried about fuel delivery. Is a piece of mind.

SEANIA

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Re: People 50 2T Upgrade Paths
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2019, 06:26:02 AM »


It road up more! So did my speed. I had to change out the belt to a wider one that came off a GY6 150 short case, but if it isn't the perfect size! Maybe another 10mm wouldve gotten more but-

My gearing doesn't run out untill I hit "50" on the stock tuned speedo! Seeing how normally it runs out at around 40-43-ish, this is a huge success.

There's still some shavings in the variator area from my grinding, but I got back my powerwasher today from loaning it to a friend, and will spray the remnants out (will do what I can to prevent rust after doing so). Had rinsed/sprayed out the case with a 2 stroke oil/gas mix (1/3 mix) initially, and sprayed down the variator surfaces with belt conditioner.

Keep in mind, this is all on the stock tire size. So if I add that on, I imagine I'll be able to hit at least a real 50 before gearing runs out. Now, now, increasing the bore makes sense since there's enough gearing to take advantage of the power. Need to clear out some carbon from my piston/head, and remount the TT exauhst with a new seal (don't think it mounted properly), and I might regain enough power on the stock cylinder to actually hold the speed I want. (some castor oil had managed to work its way up into the under side of the piston too, and gummed up in it, weighing it down more). I'm going to have the fastest 2t People 50 anyone has ever had x3 top speed wise that is. So excited.

I'll update again when my new exhaust gasket comes in and I clean everything out. Can't exactly make ones of those easily, so, new one it is.

100% recommend this mod for more top end the GY6 50 variator is cheap, and a grinder to make it happen is all of 45$.

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