Ouch ! Nasty reminder that Scooters are more dangerous than Motorcycles.

[scooterfan]

So yesterday I had to go to the shops in quite a hurry. Traffic was a bit heavy and after sitting at a T-junction for a while I saw a gap and took off - not noticing the loose gravel at the opposite side of the road. So just when I turned to the right on the other side of the road I hit the loose gravel and the scooter suddenly just disappeared under me ..........

Long story, but I actually felt sorry the other road users who had to view an oldish guy hitting the road right in front of them.
Fortunately at the end the couple of scratches on my arm and hand look worse than the scratches on the scooter. All bones are still straight and well, and the scratches are nothing to worry about. The scratches will never convince me to start getting the protective gear out of the cupboard.

Moral of this story - watch out folks, this incident would never have happened if I was riding a motorcycle. The gravel on the road was not that much - but due to the lower center of gravity, more direct steer, and smaller wheels I am more than convinced that scooters are more dangerous than motorcycles, specially on loose gravel.

Some of the scratches can be seen below :

[Neil955i]

Not sure I agree that scooters are inherently more dangerous than bikes, my X-TOWN 300 handles well and whilst not in the same class as my Street Triple RS, it’s no slouch.

So no gloves even?  I’m a firm believer in gloves helmet boots and biking jacket even when “popping to the shops”. I might only wear jeans on those occasions, as opposed to the full leathers when out on my bike, but some (minimal) protective gear is always a wise precaution IMHO.

Nevertheless, hope you and the scoot get well soon.


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[john grinsel]

As long time rider (since 1955), high miles (over 1.5 million), like scooters (dry feet) getting older (80), done over 400,000 miles in new maxi scooters since 1990, maybe 50-75,000 on older 2 stroke Vespas----rest of my miles on reg. motorcycle, from new HD factory sidecar outfit to Travis bike motor-------my point here it takes MUCH MORE SKILL TO RIDE MODERN SCOOTER (safely) THAN MODERN MOTORCYCLE!    But maxi scooters are often favored by old farts who never were very skillful or experienced young----so watch it!   Take courses/practice remembering things change as you age----my 2019 XTown fine, but I need to watch it....tire sensitive, maybe front end light, can be powerful (no pegs to stand on/no tank to grip/a lot of weight rests on your dead butt, etc/handlebars too high) and of course ride a lot to stay in shape and sharp) Point: these scooters can go down on you quickly.  I think Vespa has introduced anti-spin on take off feature.

[Neil955i]

But maxi scooters are often favored by old farts who never were very skillful or experienced young----so watch it!   Take courses/practice remembering things change as you age----

There we have it in a nutshell John.  This old fart earned his knowledge over many years on a variety of bikes before trying out scooters, but I'll stand by my original point, I do not think scooters are any worse than bikes, they BOTH need to be ridden with respect and caution.  Hit a patch of gravel or diesel in a bend (curve) and you're off on either!  Hence my exhortation always to wear protective gear for it it does all go tits up!

[scooterfan]

As long time rider (since 1955), high miles (over 1.5 million), like scooters (dry feet) getting older (80), done over 400,000 miles in new maxi scooters since 1990, maybe 50-75,000 on older 2 stroke Vespas----rest of my miles on reg. motorcycle, from new HD factory sidecar outfit to Travis bike motor-------my point here it takes MUCH MORE SKILL TO RIDE MODERN SCOOTER (safely) THAN MODERN MOTORCYCLE!    But maxi scooters are often favored by old farts who never were very skillful or experienced young----so watch it!   Take courses/practice remembering things change as you age----my 2019 XTown fine, but I need to watch it....tire sensitive, maybe front end light, can be powerful (no pegs to stand on/no tank to grip/a lot of weight rests on your dead butt, etc/handlebars too high) and of course ride a lot to stay in shape and sharp) Point: these scooters can go down on you quickly.  I think Vespa has introduced anti-spin on take off feature.

I fully agree.
After spending most part of my life on motorcycles I am more than convinced that specially small scooters are more dangerous than motorcycles in general. I have no experience with bigger scooters but to my experience an experienced motorcycle rider can easily misjudge his / her own riding skills on a smallish scooter . I could be wrong, but this is my reasoning:

1.The weight of a small scooter is quite a lot less than the weight of bigger motorcycles. To my mind this probably means the wheels on a light scooter will have less grip in the road - compared to a heavier motorcycle. (More weight on the wheels = more grip on the road)

2. Motorcycle engines are installed to the frame, and are located in front of the rider's seating position - closer to the front wheel. Scooter engines are located under the rider's seating position, and are directly linked to the rear wheel. The engines are also closer to the rear wheel. The seat position on a scooter is also closer to the rear tire - while the seat position on many motorcycles are more or less at the center of the motorcycle.Therefore I think weight distribution between the front wheels on scooters is quite different from weight distribution on scooters.
Having said this - it is no secret that sport motorcycles handles different from cruiser- type motorcycles. So I think it just make sense that new scooter riders should be aware of the fact that many years's experience is no guarantee that no adaptions  need to be made to ride a scooter safely.

3. Specially on small scooters (with shorter wheel base and smaller wheels) even an experienced motorcycle rider needs to be very careful not to misjudge his / her own riding experience. Steering on smaller scooters are more "direct" - and steering the handlebar on a small scooter is definitely"easier" than steering the handlebar on a big motorcycle.

4. I am not sure about this, but my scooter currently has a Nylon tire in front, ant a Rubber tire at the rear, The Nylon tire in front seem to be quite "hard" - while the Rubber tire at the rear seem to be "softer". Right or wrong - compared to the Rubber tire at the rear I think the Nylon tire in front probably has less grip on the road, and probably contributed to this incident.

In short - right from the start I realized my smallish scooter handles quite different from the bigger motorcycles I owned previously.  I just think even an experienced motorcycle rider must never under-estimate the difference between motorcycle riding, and scooter riding. Without looking for excuses, I am more than convince that there is a definite difference. Specially on smaller scooters.



 

[klaviator]

IMO it's more the rider that makes the scooter/motorcycle more or less dangerous.  They both have their advantages as well as disadvantages when it comes to safety.  I have often ridden my scooters on gravel.  I don't feel it is dangerous although I do slow down. 
 
Either way, I wear protective gear when riding.  At a minimum a helmet, armored jacket, gloves and over the ankle boots.  Sometime I just wear jeans but most of the time they will be kevlar reinforced jeans with knee pads.

[Forbes1964]

 My take from this: 1. We’ll never convince one side or another which is more dangerous. A compelling case can be made either way.
2. Be EXTRA CAREFUL when riding on two wheels. PERIOD!

3. Wear protective gear in order to reduce the chances and magnitude of injuries in case of an accident.

Thanks for your support [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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[scooterfan]

Maybe I should have mentioned - I started riding a scooter and motorcycles about 50 years ago. I owned several motorcycles during my lifetime, but unfortunately I never kept proper record on distance covered during the years. I've always been riding carefully, at my own pace, an always preferred to avoid riding in groups for safety reasons.

Regarding safety gear, I fully agree about helmets - I never ride without a helmet. When I still owned motorcycles, I usually wore motorcycle- or normal boots. Our local summer conditions are quite hot and I prefer not to punish myself by sweating like hell in safety gear.

Over the years I've had a couple of falls, bruises, and scratches - but fortunately not too many. Nothing more painful than a couple of rugby injuries during the younger stage of my life.
 I don't want to act "brave" or like a "red neck" - but I think it's all in the mind. The couple of scratches and bruises I got during my lifetime never convinced me to start wearing safety gear at all times. Nothing has ever been too painful to handle.  As I'm sitting here the couple of scratches are not causing any pain at all - and I do not use any medication .

 Again - I'm not trying to act "brave" - but a couple of scratches will never convince me to start riding with proper safety gear.   I'm not trying to convince anyone to ride without safety gear either. It's a matter of "different stokes for different blokes" I guess.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Motorcycles and scooters - all are dangerous - but I'm not going there.

BUT, by jingle refusing gloves and shoulder and elbow protection is well, you know.
C'mon young fellow - a mesh jacket with proper CE3 orange pads and perforated leather gloves are not going to roast you like a chicken.

Here is my mesh jacket and gloves drying on a stepladder in my garage …..after I went into a lake this morning.

Plenty of air (and water moves through these jackets, which also carry your essential protective pads. And when one does a swan dive off of two wheels the palms of the hands often make first contact - unless you've had some kind off MI-5 training to roll into a protective croissant on impact?
We're not even going to discuss the benefits of hi viz, when you're laying in the street.

"Mesh and perforation". Please give it some (more) thought. No one will think the less of you!

Photos from inside the FirstGear mesh jacket - light shining through.


Nice protective back pad...


Perf'd ICON leather gloves...(I have white ones for hot days)



Air flows thru - cars go around. Win/Win!


Stig

[CROSSBOLT]

Whether you fly a dinky Cessna, a DC-10 or anything in between (or even beyond like powered parachutes or space shuttles), the principles are the same. Preparation, pre-flight, technique, etc. Everything has a performance envelope and unless you are being paid to establish the limits of that envelope, you are well advised to stay INSIDE that envelope. Each machine has limitations that must be recognized. Some rigs have more than others. You have to adapt because the machines will not adapt to you. Plus you must be aware of the conditions. And THERE is where we all may be inconsistent to our pain. Avoid cranial-rectal inversion so you don't screw the pooch!

[Forbes1964]

Motorcycle, scooter, Massive Blonde Comb-overs - all are dangerous - but I'm not going there.

BUT, by jingle refusing gloves and shoulder and elbow protection is well, you know.
C'mon young fellow - a mesh jacket with proper CE3 orange pads and perforated leather gloves are not going to roast you like a chicken.

Here is my mesh jacket and gloves drying on a stepladder in my garage …..after I went into a lake this morning.

Plenty of air (and water moves through these jackets, which also carry your essential protective pads. And when one does a swan dive off of two wheels the palms of the hands often make first contact - unless you've had some kind off MI-5 training to roll into a protective croissant on impact?
We're not even going to discuss the benefits of hi viz, when you're laying in the street.

"Mesh and perforation". Please give it some (more) thought. No one will think the less of you!

Photos from inside the FirstGear mesh jacket - light shining through.


Nice protective back pad...


Perf'd ICON leather gloves...(I have white ones for hot days)



Air flows thru - cars go around. Win/Win!


Stig

Even though I only rode for a short while, thankfully, I learned during this era of super safety. Otherwise, I might have been like others who balk at safety gear. I realize that it difficult to learn a new behavior no matter how much sense it makes.
But I simply remember the last pre accident exchange between my much younger boss and me. He laughed at me with my helmet, jacket, and gloves for riding a SCOOTER. I remember telling him that if I went down at 50-60 mph, my body wouldn’t know if I’d fallen off a scooter or a Harley. I also remember the day before/of my accident was a HOT, HUMID, 90+ degree July 2-3 in PANAMA CITY, FL. Most of college age AND older adults were riding with either nothing or an open faced helmet with short sleeves. I felt odd with my mesh jacket , full faced flip helmet, and gloves and was tempted for a split second to go without . Late that night I’d left Walmart and was riding without a care. But my thoughts wandered for just a couple of seconds at 55 mph. A pole was waiting for my leg in the median, and the rest is history. But thanks to God’s Grace and a helmet, gloves, and that nice mesh jacket, those things took the force of the impact of my head against whatever including my windscreen , gravel, asphalt and dirt . And took the brunt my upper body doing and sliding against whatever. So the only thing that could not overcome the law of physics was bone vs metal at 55mph. Yes, I was usually more careful. But we as humans are IMPERFECT. In addition, unforeseen things sometimes happen in spite of our due diligence .

I’m simply glad I only had a shattered leg to deal with which was MORE THAN PAINFUL. But I can’t imagine having to have dealt with road rash in other places as well.

What was the point of this long, rambling writing? I Don’t know. But as we age we are prone to such! [emoji23][emoji23]. Also, although everyone chooses to do what is pleasing to them and accepts a level of risks they are comfortable with , I myself am a strong advocate of wearing safety gear. Ok rambling over. Lol.


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[scooterfan]

Quite interesting. I've never seen this "anti chicken roast" protective gear at any of our local motorcycle shops before.   Maybe I just didn't have a proper look - but I haven't seen anyone wearing anything like that either.

[john grinsel]

Now, in addition to high miles, I have BSc Safety Degree and for 40 years or so my job got me involved with motorcycle safety----and I own Darien pants and Jacket, padded mesh jacket, choice of three helmets, lots of gloves/mitts----my own riding, always boots of some sort/helmet and gloves----but getting all up in protective stuff can be overdone.

But my opinion of those all dressed up---they should in many cases concentrate on their riding skills/practice.

Real life at 80 I hit something or it hits me at high speed I will probably splat----just a fact.

[john grinsel]

Another add on here----most protective suits are black or dark colors--- I think bright yellow are much better at least they see you before hitting you or maybe avoiding.

[Stig / Major Tom]

"Mesh" motorcycle jackets are made by various manufacturers.

This is a snap from several years ago....wearing my hi viz First Gear mesh jacket. You can also see how visible the reflective strips are as well. Most jackets have them probably.

There are a bunch of jackets with some hi viz areas on them.
Saleslady kept steering me to jackets with 'some' hi viz areas. I told her, "no, I want as close to 100% hi viz as possible - or why bother?"

Do I stand out like a sore thumb? You bet. But, I'm riding a scooter in Ohio - so obviously I already don't give two craps what people think.

I won't bother showing you my cold, and frigid, riding jackets. You don't need that is SA. But each have a lot of hi viz, plus  reflective areas for my daily night rides.




Stig