Agility 16+ returned from ride now electrically dead

[AndyAgility]

Hello, I have an Agility 16+ that went on a 45min ride and parked up like usual
A few hours later I returned to ride and the key showed no ignition lights at all.
No Dash, no horn nothing and the bike will not start.
There are only two fuses to locate in the under seat battery, both fuses show signs of connectivity at either end on a multi-meter (so not blown)
The battery is showing 12.8v (so not flat)
Something beyond the battery and fuses is preventing the bike from receiving power at all?
There are three terminals not connected, I suspect they are ecu I/O's as they have nowhere to go?

I'm leaning toward the ignition barrel or ignition relay if there is one...
Anyone have any suggestions?

[MJR]

12.8 volts with the key on? If so sounds like a main connection either at the battery, harness, or switch. Do you have a under seat light and does it work?

[AndyAgility]

Hi, thanks for the reply. The battery was tested when removed from bike.
The fuses test ok and look great.
The ignition key position makes no affect to the bike, no solenoid tick, no lights no nothing.
I spoke with the dealer who wanted me to change the fuse anyway?

This I will do later today.

edit: turns out the fuses are 240v and the automotive shop wouldn't sell me the 12v equivalent amps.
Looks like this is going to go into heart surgery, I'll test for connectivity through the wiring harness tomorrow.

This is my first relationship with Kymco and likely my last. I'm not impressed with the service from the brands representatives and the quality of build below the skin.
Lets see if things improve but I'm motivated to move on. 15 years on SYM without a single problem, less then a few months on Kymco and the dealer says - what do you want me to do about it?

[scooterfan]

Hi, thanks for the reply. The battery was tested when removed from bike.
The fuses test ok and look great.
The ignition key position makes no affect to the bike, no solenoid tick, no lights no nothing.
I spoke with the dealer who wanted me to change the fuse anyway?

This I will do later today.

edit: turns out the fuses are 240v and the automotive shop wouldn't sell me the 12v equivalent amps.
Looks like this is going to go into heart surgery, I'll test for connectivity through the wiring harness tomorrow.

This is my first relationship with Kymco and likely my last. I'm not impressed with the service from the brands representatives and the quality of build below the skin.
Lets see if things improve but I'm motivated to move on. 15 years on SYM without a single problem, less then a few months on Kymco and the dealer says - what do you want me to do about it?

That incorrect fuse could easily cause a number of failures on other components.

Maybe you shouldn't blame Kymco - rather blame the clever guy who installed that incorrect fuse.

[CROSSBOLT]

Higher voltage rating on a fuse makes no difference since that only relates to arc suppression. One NEVER puts a fuse in a system with a voltage rating BELOW system volts. Other way around, higher in a low voltage system OK.

[scooterfan]

It all depends on the Amp rating of a fuse. If the Amp rating on that 240 Volt fuse is higher than the rating on a correct fuse it can easily cause other component failures when something goes wrong.

That’s why I mentioned “maybe” he should rather blame the clever guy. It all depends on the Amp rating of that fuse. Voltage is not important.

[AndyAgility]

That is correct, they were the correct amp at 240v
In the battery tray there were two original replacement fuses at the correct amp
I tested these and still have a completely dead scooter.
The service record on the bike shows it has had one service (its first service) so there is equal chance the previous owner or the dealer set this configuration up
I'm not looking to blame, I'm looking for support and I didn't think much of the dealers assistance at this point but lets give benefit of the doubt because of the time of year.

Now, this is complete speculation but I suspect it has a wiring harness fault from manufacture that the service agent has no interest in resolving
The original owner has likely thought a higher voltage fuse might help?
Does anyone know where I can get hold of a service manual for the bike so I can disassemble and assess the electrics?
There isn't anyway of me getting it to the dealer for assessment so I'm completely stuck

[CROSSBOLT]

Usually the wiring harness in these is pretty good. More likely there is a loose connection. The initial distribution from the battery is quite simple in EVERY scoot or motorcycle. Do you have a multimeter and basic tools? You wanna ride, you gotta fix! You need a little help? You got it right here!

[AndyAgility]

I've tested the the wiring harness to the relay, everything seems ok.
Given that the key doesnt provide power for the starter to engage I think the problem precedes the starter and relay.

The side panels are held together buy screws and plastic clip locks.
I'm reluctant to start disassembly in fear I will break something on such a new scooter.
This bike is a year and a half old with only 2500km on it!

Does anyone have any instruction on the order of disassembly for the front headlight assembly of this bike?

[scooterfan]

Did you check the ignition switch itself with a multimeter ?

Or maybe the problem is caused by a bad earth connection from the battery ?

[AndyAgility]

Yes, I just did this but that wasn't where the fault was.

In summery;
removed the battery cover and tested battery
Replaced fuses as precaution
Removed seat assembly by removing two bolts near battery, two from middle of under seat storage, two bots at front in the under seat storage and two screws near seat hinge
tested relay - ok
To access the front of the bike you have to remove the top two screws that hold the coloured headlight panel
At the base of this panel is the worst designed panel pins as they recessed to an edge that doesnt allow a removal tool to fit easily
This will expose the head light assembly
First you need to remove the screws from the right side panel and remove all the panel pins on the front side of this fairing. (i advise removing the top left side screws as well)
now you can remove the two bolts at the top of the headlight and the entire assembly with the left side fairing can be shifted enough for access.

I tested the key positions - ok
I tested the power was getting to the switch - ok
I thought it best to start deducting connections - starting with cig lighter - success!
Check a twist lock connection and found it in a disconnected position.
Locked and reconnected - test ignition - fixed!
Re-assembled.
There was a loose black male bullet connector not insulated and no where to connect?
But I assume this to be left over from a generic wiring harness and hope it doesnt cause trouble
When I started the bike the engine light flashes one long flash and one short flash.
If anyone knows the flash codes it would be a huge help

[AndyAgility]

the forum may have answered my question already
https://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=25552.msg182440#msg182440
basically, while the bike has been not mobile the battery lost voltage from 12.8 to 12.6 and possibly needs to be charged
The long flash followed by a short flash can be interpreted as a battery warning in the thread above

My conclusion for the Kymco experience is this
The bikes presentation is good and rides well, beneath that are broken plastic couplings that hold tubes and wires while other harness just hang jammed into cavities conveniently
There are lots of cavities that aren't easily accessible with many panels interconnecting in a sequence meaning its never just one panel to remove to address an issue
In general everything is insulated well with dust boots and heat shrink where it counts and in the grand scheme of things is competitive to it competition
But where this brand lets itself down is customer service, there are no resources easily found, no advice or wisdom at the dealers and you are kind of left out in the cold relying on communities like this one.
Maybe its a culture shock from coming from another brand but this is an area they need to improve on.

[CROSSBOLT]

Hooray! You have the right ideas! You are on the best customer service forum that exists. Ride with a smile!

[Stig / Major Tom]

the forum may have answered my question already
https://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=25552.msg182440#msg182440
basically, while the bike has been not mobile the battery lost voltage from 12.8 to 12.6 and possibly needs to be charged
The long flash followed by a short flash can be interpreted as a battery warning in the thread above

My conclusion for the Kymco experience is this
The bikes presentation is good and rides well, beneath that are broken plastic couplings that hold tubes and wires while other harness just hang jammed into cavities conveniently
There are lots of cavities that aren't easily accessible with many panels interconnecting in a sequence meaning its never just one panel to remove to address an issue
In general everything is insulated well with dust boots and heat shrink where it counts and in the grand scheme of things is competitive to it competition
But where this brand lets itself down is customer service, there are no resources easily found, no advice or wisdom at the dealers and you are kind of left out in the cold relying on communities like this one.
Maybe its a culture shock from coming from another brand but this is an area they need to improve on.

Agree that SYM makes a great scooter - but doubt their service tech would have found your underbonnnet loose connection without a significant labor bill.
Many scooters are maddenly panel puzzles. One's pre-purchase reasearch can help select an easy DIY scooter if service is going to be miles away.
Honda has several nearby dealers ..
.but I would not own their otherwise fine PCX because the difficulty in getting at the engine.
My local megabrand dealer would have been no more help to your over the phone electrical problem than was your Kymco dealer.
"We'll fetch it for $, and take a look at it, at our hourly rate."
My 7 yr old Kymco's panels are in fine shape, and the scoot is very easy to DIY because of the panel layout.
But, yes, stick with a brand that's working for you - scooter ownership should not be a pain.
Stig