Starting scooter

[CROSSBOLT]

Several Flukes? You are way ahead of me! Good, then. Please take one of the excellent meters and hook to measure voltage while cranking to start. Convenient access would be the outlet in that left-hand glove box. By the way, do you happen to get the battery symbol while cranking? The best idea would be the volts to the ECU while cranking....

[roxyflash]

Ok battery light does not come on .I won’t be able to test till this weekend coming up .

[CROSSBOLT]

Ok battery light does not come on .I won’t be able to test till this weekend coming up .

Roger that.

[roxyflash]

Temp outside 45 battery full charge volt meter hooked up cranking the starter dropped to 11 volts no fire tried it twice  still no fire tried wide open to clear still no fire then battery dropped to 10 volts so quit trying.Battery at beginning was at 13.5 volts.Not sure but the starter could be drawing too much thing I don’t like is all the lights are on that doesn’t help with the voltage.

[CROSSBOLT]

Temp outside 45 battery full charge volt meter hooked up cranking the starter dropped to 11 volts no fire tried it twice  still no fire tried wide open to clear still no fire then battery dropped to 10 volts so quit trying.Battery at beginning was at 13.5 volts.Not sure but the starter could be drawing too much thing I don’t like is all the lights are on that doesn’t help with the voltage.

You got that right! Lights on is NO help especially when cold! BUT you had good volts during cranking! That proves battery and connections good. Next suspect is sidestand safety switch, run/stop switch and possibly the ignition (key) switch. In that order.

However, before you dive into those, do the speedo, tach needles go full scale then back to zero when you turn the key on? Do you hear the fuel pump run and shut off when the needles do their dance? Do all the caution (yellow) and danger (red) lights on the instrument cluster all light and then go out when the needles go to zero? Except the red oil light.

I probably forgot something but one of the other guys will point it out.

[roxyflash]

When I try to start here’s what I do kick stand up key on wait till gauges sweep then go back pull brake on make sure fuel pump stops then hit the start button.All warning lights work fuel half full temp gauge shows first line.Batterylight off battery new with moose charger on it till I try starting.Spark plug new fuel cap has been vented.I haven’t drained the puke tube yet I’m going to check it next time I try starting it.Letting the battery recharge.I had the injector out cleaned it set the valves last weekend Then it started .Restarted 5 times no problem same temperature outside.For what ever reason after it sets doesn’t want to restart.Last weekend I was checking for spark when it didn’t start I was getting good spark that’s when I pulled the injector and did the cleaning on it and set the valves.Next I think I need to check pressure on injector.

[CROSSBOLT]

I may have missed it but when you say no spark, does thar mean no spark obseved at the shell grounded plug removed?

[roxyflash]

I have spark good blue spark.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Good spark...hmmmm
Wonder what a more powerful battery (higher than stock CCA)  would do....especially if ECU on the EFI engine is not quite up to snuff.
My scooter's battery box will accept a much more powerful battery - than is supplied by Kymco.
Yuasa specs pages will show various batteries with same physical dimensions....and differing CCA's.
Stig

[roxyflash]

What are the normal amp draw on the starter I have a dc amp meter that can measure draw.

[rdhood]

Here is a truly simple question that has not been answered:  When you are cranking on the engine, what is the system voltage?  It's a simple question with an answer that you need to know. 

I installed a $12 voltmeter on my Downtown (see pic).  But what I now is that if the voltage in the system drops below about 11.1-11.4 v, then you will get symptoms like yours. My bike acts like yours when my voltage reads in the 10's.

Scooter rant in general:  Scooter charging systems are fragile. Why they cant put a stupid $5 voltmeter (if it costs me $10, it costs them $1 to make!) on every $5k scooter is beyond me.

Back to the topic:  WHILE YOU ARE CRANKING, what is your voltage?  Once you have this going, you should also check your running voltage to make sure it is charging the bike.The pic shows my running voltage

Once you are positive that you actually have sufficient power to the whole circuit, and sufficient fuel at startup, THEN start looking at things like a dirty throttle body

[roxyflash]

I believed I already stated the voltage was at 11 volts when cranking and didn’t start battery was 13.5 at the time I unplugged the moose charger.Possible I got a weak battery it’s new.Back to starter how much do they normally draw on amps?

[mousejunks]

The easiest way to check for a weak battery is to put a load on it. Turn on your headlights without starting the bike and see how long it takes for the red battery warning light on the dash to appear. If the warning light comes on within a few seconds you have a weak battery.

Check the starter motor, starter relay/solenoid and battery terminals for loose connections as well.

[scooterfan]

The easiest way to check for a weak battery is to put a load on it. Turn on your headlights without starting the bike and see how long it takes for the red battery warning light on the dash to appear. If the warning light comes on within a few seconds you have a weak battery.

I don’t think a test like that will be reliable. A starter motor draws most power from a battery, and a Voltage reading taken while the engine swings should not give a reliable indication whether a battery is still good either.

When professionals do a proper load test, they put a specific load on the battery - according to to specific specs of the specific battery . This means different size batteries get tested under different loads. On top of this, a battery is suppose to hold it’s power for a number of seconds while the correct load gets used for the specific size battery. During the first few seconds a faulty battery might hold power, but it will start losing power within the next couple of seconds.

That’s why I always advice people to get a proper load test done at a battery specialist. They usually know how to do a reliable test on a battery.

[rdhood]

I have another "DUH" suggestion. Remove the cargo tub and battery cover and try to jump it off with a known good battery. You know someone with a car? Cover the basics.
 
I have a 12v deep cycle marine battery that I use for things like this.I would have tested with a known good battery right away