New exec at KymcoUSA

[Stig / Major Tom]

I wonder if the ratio is different in some areas of the US. My dealer offers Kymco scooters and bikes, but didn't see one Kymco amongst his offroad stuff.
One has to have a place to go offroading - but a scooter can be used anywhere. There are more people in apartments than on farms.
Stig

[pa-outdoorsman]

I wonder if the ratio is different in some areas of the US. My dealer offers Kymco scooters and bikes, but didn't see one Kymco amongst his offroad stuff.
One has to have a place to go offroading - but a scooter can be used anywhere. There are more people in apartments than on farms.
Stig

Yes, but as you have pointed out numerous times, scooters just don't have a lot of traction among the American consumer. Conversely, you'd be surprised at how many suburban garages have dir bikes, ATVs and SxS machines in them. Just think about the marketing effort Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Polaris and Can-Am put into marketing these off-road machines to the U.S. market each year. Considering there is nothing on the scooter side of things that even remotely approaches that marketing effort, or the variety of product available to the market, I'd have to believe that the off-road market is considerably larger than the scooter market. Again, if you want to talk about POTENTIAL users, I can't argue with you. But I am just thinking in terms of raw numbers of ACTUAL sales annually.

[pa-outdoorsman]

Here's an article I found online. It's a couple years old, but they are estimating that more than 411,000 SxS machines were sold in the US in 2016. That's A LOT of side by sides!

https://www.motorcyclepowersportsnews.com/utv-market-trending-up/

[pa-outdoorsman]

And here's an article from the LA Times that says annual Side by Side sales may approach 500,000, which surpasses ALL motorcycles combined at about 480,000! Wow. I figured the numbers were high, but I did not realize they were that high. Consider the fact that today EVEN MORE manufacturers are offering side by sides in the US (Kubota, Cub Cadet, Mahindra, Kioti, etc.) and I imagine the SxS continues to be strong or else everyone wouldn't be trying to jump into the market.

https://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-side-by-sides-20160524-snap-story.html

Here's another article looking at 2018 and 2019 motorcycle and ATV sales. Looks like motorcycle sales in the US are roughly 450,000, while ATVs are roughly 200,000.

So, assuming this data is correct, side by sides and ATVs combined would be roughly 600,000 units a year in the US vs. 450,000 units for motorcycles, which I am assuming includes on-road bikes, scooters and off-road/dual-sport bikes.

https://motorcyclesdata.com/2020/02/02/united-states-motorcycles-market/

[randyo]

That doesn't surprise me at all. I am sure you could dig up the market research somewhere, but I'd be shocked if the ATX/SxS market in the USA isn't at least 5X bigger than the scooter market. I'd guess maybe even 10X or 20X the size, meaning that for every scooter sold in the U.S., there are 10-20 off-road vehicles sold. Anyone else care to guess the relative the size of the markets, or have any data to shed some light on it?

sounds about right, they are a multi-brand dealer, and by the time you add up all the Polaris RZRs they sell, and how few Yamaha scooters, it probably is 20:1 ohrvs:scooters

[JJJoseph]

there are several around the country who could actually visit dealers . . . who have  problems their techs can't seem to solve
!

Kymco could spend every last nickel on marketing but they won't be able to overcome the bad publicity that comes from Kymco owners who are having basic problems with their machines.  Amongst my riding friends are several who have had Kymco's, who now loudly say,"NEVER buy a Kymco!"  Several members here on this forum have problems starting and/or running their Kymcos.  There's plenty of scooter riders around my town still, but they've switched to Yamahas or Vespas.  The reason?  They can get help with their stubborn-ass fuel injected engines.  There's a Kymco dealer in the next city that is STILL trying to unload new 2013 and 2014 Kymcos!  The reason they're still unsold is nobody wants to get stuck with a machine that can't be serviced or repaired.  My feeling is that Kymco is totally dead in the marketplace until they can provide the world with computer-based diagnostics that owners and repair shops can use to service all those back-firing and mis-firing Kymcos that we're stuck with.

[john grinsel]

Reply to Kymcos that don't run-----were/are all new? Or are they old used and probably not taken care of.

I find, with my 2019 XTown 300i, to be very reliable, 9,000 miles now----it is my 11th new maxi scooter since 1990 and over 400,000 miles with them.   Price on the Kymco was right, too.  Dealer 35 miles away.

[CROSSBOLT]

I must agree with John and Stig about reliability. We have had great consistent reliability out of all our fuel injected Kymco scooters and side-by-side (with qualification on the sxs). There have been drawbacks such as vacuum vent valves and marginal batteries but those were solved. I will have to agree in part with JJJoe about the warranty issue with most dealers. That is, what good is a two year warranty if the dealer does not want to mess with it? Hopefully, the FNG at Kymco USA will deal with this. Dennis McNeal is the New Guy and brings motorcycle experience with him. It will take more than experience to fix this. It will take a fresh approach that is unique.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Yep,
Regarding JJ & his "loud" Kymco hating gang -- He & they've all been at it for some time.
Nothing is going to change there. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Anyway, the coffee is ready - and my oil has finished draining from the LIKE - time to clean the screen.

Stig

[randyo]

my Kymcos have been a lot more reliable than my Suzukis

[Kansas kymco]

I haven't had Kymco's long term. Most of mine have been bought that have sat for years and low mileage.  I would expect the issues I have encountered regardless of brand. I have predominantly bought Yamaha, Honda,  Kawasaki and BMW motorcycles.  Kymco was my introduction into the scooter world to see if I enjoyed riding them without a large outlay of cash.  When I go to the motorcycle  dealer's service department I see all makes in there.

[CROSSBOLT]

my Kymcos have been a lot more reliable than my Suzukis

Oooh, I would LOVE to hear some of THOSE stories! No, REALLY!

[randyo]

Oooh, I would LOVE to hear some of THOSE stories! No, REALLY!

the only reason I haven't tossed my '07 V-strom 1000 in the dumpster is cause of the unique relationship I have with the dealer, I get a 15% discount on everything, and 30day terms, but most of all, the owner of the dealership is one of my clients, and is open to barter

probably the worse thing I had to get fixed was the wire harness, it got cancer, turned green inside, I was not willing to experiment with a used harness, couldn't find one that hadn't been compromised somehow, Iv'e replaced the fuel pump a couple times, the stator 4 times

the nice thing about barter, my charge rates for myself and my surveying crews is nearly double per man hour of what their mechanic labor rates are, and I use a 6:1 multiplier rates to cost ratio

I actually purchased both my Kymcos (UXV450i & K-Pipe) by barter

I can't complain about the dealer, they have gone to bat for me with Suzuki NA

[leomagnus]

I would quite disagree with JJJ about his Kymco assessment. I have lived in Europe(Italy) for 8 years where scooters are extremely abundant and used for daily use by many people. There are a lot of Kymco bikes in Rome and according to my scooter mechanic at the Porta Portese in Rome, they are one of the most problem free scooters. He told me to only buy a Kymco or Honda due to their reliability. These bike mechanics in this area are the best in the city and they know their stuff. He said of the Kymcos especially that they can take a beating and still keep on running. Vespas are crap for the most part and you are paying for the name. The other Piaggio models like the Liberty and Beverly sell well and have decent reliability. The Yamaha scooters were also popular and seemed to sell well. I hated my Aprilia and Gilera because of all the mechanical problems that I had with them. JJJ your friends really do not know what the hell they are talking about when it comes to the reliability of Kymco scooters. Yes we all can have a problem here of there, but I have owned a 300 GTI and now a 400i Xciting and not have had really any problems. The only thing that I can complain about is that the battery in my Xciting 400i has a hard time turning over when the weather drops below 35 deg F. But that is an easy fix.

[Viper254]

The Italians do love a Kymco.

In the UK, one of our biggest brands is called "Lexmoto" - that suffers from a questionable dealer network, but the bikes are actually pretty good... but lots of people making lots of noise always dents a reputation.