Upgrading from 125cc to 150 or 160 something cc ?

[scooterfan]

I recently started thinking of upgrading to a scooter with 150 or 160 something cc , just for a little extra power in future - but I saw a comment somewhere at the forum which got me puzzled. I couldn’t find the comment now, but to my understanding the comment indicated that a scooter with 125cc engine managed to keep up with scooters with slightly bigger engines during a road trip.

Which made me wonder how this could be possible ? Does extra weight on scooters (heavier scooter) with slightly bigger engines cancel the little extra power generated by the bigger engines ?

[Neil955i]

Wow. How long have you got?

All other things being equal, the bigger the engine, the greater the power (BHP) and the faster it goes. But...  things are rarely equal so other factors need to be borne in mind I.e. the weight of the scooter, the weight* of the rider, age of engine design, 2 or 4 stroke, skill of the rider etc etc.

Just because a 125 keeps pace with a 300 scooter on the road does not mean they’d stay together for 5 laps of a race circuit!

* I’m a bit of a bloater so I traded up from a 125 to a 300 to give the engine an easier time on the hills and when 2 up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kansas kymco]

Owning several displacement scooters my 150 is peppy around town but county roads you have to (give it all she got) to hit 55-60 mph.  The 250 does good in town but heavier to manage.  On the county roads no problem running 65 but your getting close to red line ( will run 80 mph). The 500's are pigs around town but ride nice on the highway and 65 mph is substantially lower RPM.  If I'm doing a errand around town I take the 150's, out of town I take one of the maxi scoots .  Ironically I rode someone else's  50cc kymco and was very surprised how quick it got to 25 mph  but not good for much more.

It's a tradeoff between size and weight.

[TBR125]

I have been looking at getting a 150-160cc. Coupled with the higher gearing and my increased fuel and air, I should be able to keep up with the 200's on rides.

My current jetting (to match air intake) is larger than some 150s. Does that mean my current displacement is equivalent to a 150?. The speeds I am running seem higher than a bunch of the 125 specs I have heard.

[Kansas kymco]

I have been looking at getting a 150-160cc. Coupled with the higher gearing and my increased fuel and air, I should be able to keep up with the 200's on rides.

My current jetting (to match air intake) is larger than some 150s. Does that mean my current displacement is equivalent to a 150?. The speeds I am running seem higher than a bunch of the 125 specs I have heard.

The only way to artificially increase more displacement is turbocharger or supercharger which is not practical on a scooter. You can implement several performance enhancements but does nothing to increase engine  displacement.

[TBR125]

To clarify, are you saying increased full and air volume in a cylinder does not necessarily equal greater displacement?

[john grinsel]

Having owned/ridden 125/150/250 and up to 600 scooters-----125 ridden right can be ok---just do not be afraid of running full throttle (had 125 Daelm in Korea--new--60-65 mph top--scooters can not go on Freeways there)  had 2 stroke 150 Vespa in Europe, again wide open fine, 150 Vespa better than 200 in daily use.

But in real life I consider 250cc min. at least in US to keep from getting run over----had 4 new Helix 250's, 175,000 miles with them.   and some where 250 Reflex thrown in.   So once again prefer 250cc for serious use.

Had 2 new Suzuki Burgman 400's----heavy/performance fine.

Also 2 new Honda SilverWing 600's----over 90,000 miles with them  expensive/heavy/complicated

I would say 125 performance fine,, 150 not much difference----rider skill plays a part

[scooterfan]

 

Wow. How long have you got?
Just because a 125 keeps pace with a 300 scooter on the road does not mean they’d stay together for 5 laps of a race circuit!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You have misread the topic.  My question is all about 125cc, 150cc, and 164 or 16(7 ?)cc  scooters - nothing bigger.


P.S. To clarify - I was thinking of  “upgrading” to a 150cc scooter in future, but to my understanding even an upgrade to a 164 cc scooter might not be worth the money - I could just stick to the 125cc without missing a real power difference.

[rdhood]

You have misread the topic.  My question is all about 125cc, 150cc, and 164 or 16(7 ?)cc  scooters - nothing bigger.

I think when we get outside the U.S. people forget how license classes are broken up... and how expensive fuel is.  My take on your question:

Generally, more displacement equals more horsepower. BUT, add in fuel injection and some scooters punch above their weight.  Case in point is the Yamaha Smax.  That 155cc engine puts out 15 HP!    As far as I can tell, nothing stock in that class tops it (of course, I dont know every scooter offered, so I could just be speaking from ignorance).  But when the average scooter in this class is running between 10 and 12 HP,  15HP is a significant boost.  Claimed top speed is 80mph, which is about the top speed of most 250cc carburetor engines.  So I don't know how this might weigh into your answer, but (clearly) not all 150cc are created equal!

[scooterfan]

I think when we get outside the U.S. people forget how license classes are broken up... and how expensive fuel is.  My take on your question:

Generally, more displacement equals more horsepower. BUT, add in fuel injection and some scooters punch above their weight.  Case in point is the Yamaha Smax.  That 155cc engine puts out 15 HP!    As far as I can tell, nothing stock in that class tops it (of course, I dont know every scooter offered, so I could just be speaking from ignorance).  But when the average scooter in this class is running between 10 and 12 HP,  15HP is a significant boost.  Claimed top speed is 80mph, which is about the top speed of most 250cc carburetor engines.  So I don't know how this might weigh into your answer, but (clearly) not all 150cc are created equal!

Thanks. I was thinking about Taiwanese scooters  - like Kymco or Sym (Lance) only.
Yamaha actually started selling Kymco products in our country - but prices are quite high compared to Sym, which is basically the same quality.
Local Yamaha prices are very high, compared to Kymco or Sym.

P.S. I prefer carburetor models.

[Kansas kymco]

To clarify, are you saying increased full and air volume in a cylinder does not necessarily equal greater displacement?

Displacement is a combination of bore and stroke to determine cylinder volume.  Performance mods might make the engine run more efficient but do nothing to increase cylinder volume.

You will always be limited by the amount of air the engine can take in at atmospheric pressure, the only way around this is by turbocharger or supercharger that raises atmospheric pressure.

[Kansas kymco]

Thanks. I was thinking about Taiwanese scooters  - like Kymco or Sym (Lance) only.
Yamaha actually started selling Kymco products in our country - but prices are quite high compared to Sym, which is basically the same quality.
Local Yamaha prices are very high, compared to Kymco or Sym.

P.S. I prefer carburetor models.

Do you have a dealer that would let you take a 150 for a test ride? Then you'll know if it's worth the difference for yourself. 

I've noticed some very good prices on SYM scooters and like the larger wheels.  Noticed a 200 SYM for $1995. advertised  by a Kansas City dealer. Like the looks as well. One of my Scooters is a Lambretta uno 150. This is the same bike as a Adly 150 and made by Herchee a Taiwanese manufacturer. It seems well made as well.

You could also look at the spec sheet to see if the 150 has a meaningful increase in HP over your 125. My Yamaha 125 Zuma was a little over 12 hp and ran just as strong as my current Kymco and Lambretta 150.

[TBR125]

I understand now, thanks.

[Neil955i]

You have misread the topic.  My question is all about 125cc, 150cc, and 164 or 16(7 ?)cc  scooters - nothing bigger.


P.S. To clarify - I was thinking of  “upgrading” to a 150cc scooter in future, but to my understanding even an upgrade to a 164 cc scooter might not be worth the money - I could just stick to the 125cc without missing a real power difference.

My mistake!  Upgrade from 125 to 150/160? Don’t bother would be my advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scooterfan]

Do you have a dealer that would let you take a 150 for a test ride? Then you'll know if it's worth the difference for yourself. 

I've noticed some very good prices on SYM scooters and like the larger wheels.  Noticed a 200 SYM for $1995. advertised  by a Kansas City dealer. Like the looks as well. One of my Scooters is a Lambretta uno 150. This is the same bike as a Adly 150 and made by Herchee a Taiwanese manufacturer. It seems well made as well.

You could also look at the spec sheet to see if the 150 has a meaningful increase in HP over your 125. My Yamaha 125 Zuma was a little over 12 hp and ran just as strong as my current Kymco and Lambretta 150.

I am not sure about 150cc scooters in our area, but I just compared Agility 125 and Bet & Win 150 specs.
The Bet & Win 150 engine generates 2.9 Hp more than the Agility 125 engine - but the weight of a Bet & Win 150 scooter is 72 lb (24%) MORE than the weight of an Agility 125 scooter.
 Which makes me think the Bet & Win 150’s performance will not cause a real improvement on the Agility 125’s performance.