Author Topic: Like 200i not starting  (Read 4275 times)

big blue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2020, 07:21:19 PM »
A bad starter motor would not cause lack of compression. They usually fail in two ways either they just don't turn because the internal windings are shot or the starter clutch fails and the starter will turn but not engage to spin the engine. When you are turning over the engine with the socket on the fan nut the straw will indicate that the piston is moving up and down. Lack of compression can come from a failed piston a bad head gasket or a valve that is staying open.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 07:23:14 PM by big blue »
2012 Kymco Like 200i LX (Sold)  Salem, Oregon USA

Renee74

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2020, 07:25:53 PM »
Thanks for the info. I'll give that a try.

Stig / Major Tom

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14693
  • Rural Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2020, 08:54:09 PM »
Renee, Thanks for the greeting!
I'm getting lost here....what procedure did you follow to adjust the valves. The youtube we posted, the cyclepedia.com instructions...?

With the plug installed you should very definitely feel the engine compressing as you rotate the engine with the 14mm socket turning the fan clockwise.
It should feel slightly harder,  and then easy,  to turn as you rotate the engine clockwise through the strokes.

If you feel nothing as you turn...I mean it just spins freely - please report! Remember - plug is in when you do this!

Stig.
Boston Strong
Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

big blue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #63 on: June 21, 2020, 09:08:35 PM »
Stig do you think it could be possible that one of the valves could have a broken valve spring? That could account for the floppy tappets and/or the lack of compression.
2012 Kymco Like 200i LX (Sold)  Salem, Oregon USA

Stig / Major Tom

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14693
  • Rural Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #64 on: June 21, 2020, 10:35:36 PM »
I can't quite tell from the vids... Have never seem so much movement over the valve stems!!
Broken spring  - would be a first for a LIKE with so few miles....but something strange is going on here.

 It is a bit tricky if the valve gap has been adjusted so far out of specs....that the old "align the chain sprocket properly and feel for a little up-down movement" to signify that you're at TDC on the proper stroke. Once that slight feel is lost - it is more work to find TDC. Peering in the view hole with a flashlight, while turning the engine over, straw in the spark plug hole, etc.

Once valves lash is adjusted even fairly close to proper specs - with the spark plug in...one must feel some compression resistance when turning the engine clockwise using the 14mm socket on the fan center.

If not....seems like something is broken, or gasket is blown....?

Renee is trying hard! If we can just get her to TDC...seems like she can adjust the valves.

Stig



Boston Strong
Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

big blue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #65 on: June 21, 2020, 10:41:04 PM »
Agreed
2012 Kymco Like 200i LX (Sold)  Salem, Oregon USA

CROSSBOLT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7764
  • West Tennessee, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #66 on: June 21, 2020, 11:51:40 PM »
I just watched the last video where the clearance was about 1/4 to 5/16 of an inch! Way too much! When .004" is the specified, .250 to .3125" is too big!
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

Stig / Major Tom

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14693
  • Rural Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2020, 12:31:56 AM »
I just watched the last video where the clearance was about 1/4 to 5/16 of an inch! Way too much! When .004" is the specified, .250 to .3125" is too big!
To complicate things...no idea if that engine was at TDC.
Stig
Boston Strong
Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

big blue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #68 on: June 22, 2020, 02:29:53 AM »
Renee for our info when you check valves again show us a pic of the position of the cam chain sprocket and the timing holes on the side of the sprocket. We want to see if you are at TDC.
2012 Kymco Like 200i LX (Sold)  Salem, Oregon USA

vespbretta

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
  • "Be the change that you wish to see in the world."
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2020, 04:50:32 PM »
This is another interesting 5 page long mysterious unsolved story of a defect scooter - which is usually rocksolid and reliable, if treated nicely. Although so many forum members tried to help and put so much effort into it, the owners just opted out all of a sudden. Hmmmm....

After reading carefully what Renee wrote and watching the videos of the cylinder head and the very wrong huge valve gap, my guess and conclusion is as followed:
The scooter´s last run with "beloved hubbie" on the highway was with either the wrong oil and/or not enough oil, or a defect oilpump, therefore it got too hot and seezed the valves/valvestems in open position. Therefore the huge valve stem gap. And therefore no compression. Looking at the open cylinderhead I also do not notice or see as much motoroil as I would expect or I saw in this aerea on my scooter´s engine.
Also possible now is a temporary piston seizure or piston damage via open valves. An endoscope camera system might help for further diagnosis.

Long story short: In my opinion this engine is dead.

And I am always a bit sceptic, reading about John and Jane Doe´s talking about themselves how experienced they are and what they have managed to do already "successfully" on their vehicles.
According to what dear hubbie has done to the scooter so far and how Renee tried to do the failure analyzis, I would recommend to both of them that they should better leave this kind of "service and repair" to real world professionals and mechanics.
It´s cheaper for them and maybe safer for all of us.  ;) :)
Cheers,
Robo

Kymco Like LX 200i white/blue 2014; FACO Rear Crash Bars; Kymco Front Crash Bar; Puig Windshield Traffic;  Shido Battery LTX9-BS LION; 13gr. Dr. Pulley sliders and sliding pieces; Throttle control; Full synth. 10W-50 Motor- & Synth Gearoil; modified Topcase; Italian Badges and Stickers

scooterfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 764
  • Durban, South Africa to Ankeny IA.
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2020, 07:12:32 PM »
To my understanding this scooter just suddenly died on the road. Having watched the video, I think there are two possibilities why the valves got so loose.

1. Somebody tried to adjust the valves after the scooter died on the road - not knowing what he / she was doing. This could lead to bent valves, therefore the valves stayed in open position when the engine was cranking. I think the enormous play on the valves is a definite indication that the valves would get bent if somebody tried to start that engine. The lady asked a question about TDC AFTER the valves were adjusted. To my mind this might be an indicatIon that the valves have been adjusted without proper knowledge about the correct procedure.

2. The camshaft sprocket could jump some teeth on the timing chain while the owner was riding on the road - but I think this is very unlikely.
Remember - this scooter “suddenly died on the road” - and according to the video the valves was that loose after the scooter “suddenly died on the road”.

Whatever the case,  I think chances are very good that the valves are bent on this scooter - probably due to incorrect valve clearance adjustments by whoever. On most engines valves WILL bend if gaps are that big, and somebody try to start the engine.

I think the scooter probably died on the road due to a different reason - not due to abnormal valve clearances as shown in the video.

Life is a journey. Just spend some time, and enjoy the trip.

Stig / Major Tom

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14693
  • Rural Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #71 on: September 09, 2020, 07:17:50 PM »
Did we ever decide if this engine has any compression?! I agree with crossbolt.
Now that I've listened to it on my Dell, and not my cell phone - that first video sounds like a sewing machine turning over - not a 4 stroke gas engine.

Stig
Boston Strong
Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

big blue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
    • View Profile
Re: Like 200i not starting
« Reply #72 on: September 09, 2020, 08:13:41 PM »
I think that we never got to the point of why there was no compression but on two occasions she found no compression.
2012 Kymco Like 200i LX (Sold)  Salem, Oregon USA

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function split()