Kymco CBS vs ABS

[Stig / Major Tom]

Even on dry pavement the Kymco's CBS braking is a handful when compared to similar scooters with ABS who are braking in the wet..

I believe that all new 125+ scooters in Europe must have at least front ABS braking.


Stig

[Kansas kymco]

I wonder how much it raises the price on a inexpensive scooter?  Definitely better from the safety stand point.

[klaviator]

My Like 150i has both CBS and ABS.  If it had only CBS without ABS I would not have bought it.  IMO CBS or linked brakes are stupid.  I realize that they are a benefit for riders who don't know how to use their brakes in some situations but they are a safety hazard in slippery conditions.  If I could delete the CBS from my Like I would.  It's a complicated system that makes it hard for the rider to really understand what the brakes are doing. 

[Kansas kymco]

My Like 150i has both CBS and ABS.  If it had only CBS without ABS I would not have bought it.  IMO CBS or linked brakes are stupid.  I realize that they are a benefit for riders who don't know how to use their brakes in some situations but they are a safety hazard in slippery conditions.  If I could delete the CBS from my Like I would.  It's a complicated system that makes it hard for the rider to really understand what the brakes are doing.

I don't generally ride in wet conditions  (not intentionally ) so I thought my Kymco's had excellent dual calibers on the fronts.  Some of my scoot's / motorcycles have ABS some don't.   I grew up with drum brakes on motorcycles so to me disc brakes were a giant leap foward.  I road a lot as a kid with drum brakes on solid ice and snow (only transportation)  and learned good brake control in adverse weather conditions.  I learned what the limits were of any machine I rode.

I don't know if any racing motorcycles has ABS?

[Viper254]

I wonder how much it raises the price on a inexpensive scooter?  Definitely better from the safety stand point.

I was working in the scooter industry when Euro 4 came in. It was between 25% and 30% depending on manufacturer. It was the same time fuel injection became a necessity, so it's impossible to uncouple from that cost.

I found it reassuring at the time that all FI was provided by Bosch and Denso - the Chinese/Taiwanese have shown no interest in developing their own systems.

I can't remember what the situation was with ABS, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't another bought-in good quality system.

ABS all the way. I found CBS quite hard to get on with!

[Neil955i]

ABS all the way. I found CBS quite hard to get on with!

Me too!!

[Stig / Major Tom]

Yesterday, on my ride home in a heavy rain - I was reminding myself that if I have to brake hard because of some lovely fellow Ohioan... I must get upright, straighten my line....then  s q u e e z e  like a mother' on that front lever!**



Stig

**and also kinda kicking myself for not getting the Angels installed yet.

[Iahawk]

I have no experience with a combined braking system (although there are or have been many motorcycles that came with this..I think of Honda more than others)

My biggest concern with combined brakes would be low speed, parking lot braking. You do not want to grab front brake during a slow speed maneuver. Curious if linked brakes do anything to overcome this?

Regarding front wheel ABS on scooters...brilliant idea! Yes, they should all come with this at a minimum. Think of how many crashes could be avoided if all scoots had at least front ABS.

It was also mentioned that race bikes don't have ABS..true..but only the top 1% of highly skilled riders will do better without ABS than with...for the rest of the 99% we're better off with ABS.

[klaviator]

I have no experience with a combined braking system (although there are or have been many motorcycles that came with this..I think of Honda more than others)

My biggest concern with combined brakes would be low speed, parking lot braking. You do not want to grab front brake during a slow speed maneuver. Curious if linked brakes do anything to overcome this?

That is just one issue with linked or CBS braking systems.  However, they aren't all the same.  Some do have features to prevent low speed maneuver issues.  For example, Harley's system will only link if you apply the brakes at more than 25 MPH.  If you do they will stay linked until you release them.  If you apply them at less than 25 MPH they won't link.  Talk about confusing.  Lets say you apply the brakes right around 25MPH.  Did they link or not?

On the Piaggio BV350 the you have to apply at least 70% braking force before it links.  So in low speed light braking it won't link.  Again, what exactly is 70%.

Many systems are linked all the time.  Apply the rear brake and you get some front.

Some, like BMW link the rear brake to the front brake lever.

Some are completely linked.  Apply either brake and get both.

My Like has a CBS pump that decides how much to send to each brake.

??

So I have almost no idea what it's doing.  At least I also have ABS so if I overuse one of the brakes the ABS will save my butt.  I have tried applying just the rear brake on gravel.  If I apply it fairly hard the rear wheel will start cycling the ABS while the front just rolls so it is biased to the rear.  How much?  Who knows.  Its a stupid system but overall the dual discs with Bosch ABS works very well. 

When I brake on slippery surface I use more rear brake and less front than on clean dry pavement.  With linked or CBS brakes you really don't know how much of each brake you are using. 

[john grinsel]

Combined braking systems suck for the skilled rider (my experience, 2 new Honda Silverwing 600's and over 90,000 miles, and one new Reflex)   I like to use the rear as balancing aide!!

[Viper254]

Combined braking systems suck for the skilled rider (my experience, 2 new Honda Silverwing 600's and over 90,000 miles, and one new Reflex)   I like to use the rear as balancing aide!!

For a change, I do agree with you. There are things you can do with separated brakes that you can't do with combined.

[Neil955i]

For a change, I do agree with you. There are things you can do with separated brakes that you can't do with combined.

Had CBS on my Honda PCX. Didn’t like it. Damn thing still locked the front once - on gravel at a junction. That woke me up, but happy to say 2m slide but stayed upright. Winner.

Give me front ABS any day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[klaviator]

Had CBS on my Honda PCX. Didn’t like it. Damn thing still locked the front once - on gravel at a junction. That woke me up, but happy to say 2m slide but stayed upright. Winner.

Give me front ABS any day.


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Many riders under use their front brakes.  I think that most Linked brakes/CBS are designed to force them to use more front brake.  The problem is that for those of us who use our brakes properly, these systems will often result in too much front brake.