Author Topic: yeager valve adjust  (Read 13777 times)

bikz

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2014, 08:39:56 PM »
Both measurements were in mm and I could not find the top dead center mark.

Stig / Major Tom

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2014, 01:55:41 AM »
Both measurements were in mm and I could not find the top dead center mark.
FINDING Top Dead Center: OK, look at these pictures and read the captions. This will enable you to find TDC ....you MUST feel a slight bit of movement when you pull & push on the rocker arm nut when you have that chain sprocket lined up as seen in the pix. If you have movement in the rocker arm AND the 3 chain sprocket holes are as shown - you have TDC~!
If you have NO movement in the rocker arms, then you need to rotate the engine one full turn again until the chain sproket holes line up properly again AND you can now feel slight movemnt in the rocker arm....NOW you have TDC~! TDC for our purposes is reached every-other turn of the engine.
Use you feeler blade (.10mm or .004 in.) to get the proper setting. Lock it down with the set nut and check again. Move nothing and check the other valve. If .004 fits and .005 does not fit you are good to go. (ie. try the next thicker blade, if it won't slide in there you are good to go. If it fits, do it again until it doesn't.)






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zombie

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2014, 02:07:27 AM »
Everything Stig said is wrong. He wants your bike.

It's all part of a very complex plan to have GM take over Kymco. Do what he said, and you will be driving a Chevette in two weeks. Or not.


Yore THE MAN Stig! Great post!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

bikz

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2014, 03:41:51 AM »
Stig, thank you, I appreciate it, I want to take her apart again and check it again for the 12 time! :) 

Unfortunately, I had her apart all day and just before you posted I slapped her back together...thinking I figured most of it out.  I was sure I had the proper clearance and since I checked 4 times and then went to the store to buy another feeler gauge since mine had some rust and wanted to be sure.  I really adjusted the snot out of these valves those , the previous clearances # were legit (Intake: being less than .038mm and the Exhaust: .064mm)...so it makes me EXTREMELY nervous that I messed something up. They were way tight, not sure how either...any thoughts???

Afterwards, I regapped the plug which was WAY tight too, to the recommended gap of .9mm
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 04:03:59 AM by bikz »

Stig / Major Tom

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2014, 03:01:47 PM »
Stig, thank you, I appreciate it, I want to take her apart again and check it again for the 12 time! :) 

Unfortunately, I had her apart all day and just before you posted I slapped her back together...thinking I figured most of it out.  I was sure I had the proper clearance and since I checked 4 times and then went to the store to buy another feeler gauge since mine had some rust and wanted to be sure.  I really adjusted the snot out of these valves those , the previous clearances # were legit (Intake: being less than .038mm and the Exhaust: .064mm)...so it makes me EXTREMELY nervous that I messed something up. They were way tight, not sure how either...any thoughts???

Afterwards, I regapped the plug which was WAY tight too, to the recommended gap of .9mm
Please tell us more about your scooter.
Miles, year, new, used? How many owners?
Stig
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bikz

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2014, 07:13:53 PM »


It is a 2012 with 1550 miles. I am the Second owner...i believe he was a member on here.  It has a custom made: windscreen, throttle lock, and luggage rack.  It was well cared for.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 07:27:10 PM by bikz »

Stig / Major Tom

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2014, 09:11:00 PM »
Thats a great looking scooter, and to my mind ...darn near a new scooter ...hardly  broken in at 1500 miles. Maybe the valves have never been addressed? Still, hard to think that Kymco let it out of the barn with valves that snug.
Well, whatever, when you get them opened to .10mm you'll be fine.
Hope it was not too big a job to get through the plastic and to the valves.
My Like200i is pretty easy, compared to a lot of others.
Turned 5400 miles on my Like this morning...and still consider it a new scoot. (Always amazed at how few miles so many scoots have on them when people sell them on. Saw a scoot like mine at the dealership yesterday that only had 184 miles on it, and a 3 yr old People with only 1500 miles on it.
Boston Strong
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zombie

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2014, 09:14:35 PM »
It's always the same story... It sits all winter, and runs soo bad in the spring they get traded in or put on Craigs list.
Lucky us!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

bikz

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2014, 02:38:23 AM »
Ok I just called the owner...great guy by the way, and he said he never touched the valves, just oil and trans oil.  So with that being said I agree with you Stig I doubt they would of sent it out NEW like this, but then again the plug was WAYYY off too. 

So here is my fear (even though the test ride went well): 

#1.  I may of not been at TDC since I did not pull on the rocker arms checking for movement (however I did pull the plug and put my socket extension down there to see if the piston was near the top, which it was). 

#2.  I did not use the torque specs provided for the valve adjuster.  Since it is so difficult to get it to spec
(trying to hold the adjuster with a needle nose) I got it close and snugged the adjuster nut. Then I would use the (next size up gap .005) gauge to see if it still fit, if it did I then used just the wrench and tightened 1/32ish of a turn to the right (since the nut carries the adjuster rod with it...thus making a smaller gap).  I when the .005 no loner fit in knew I was close and adjusted very carefully until the .004 could fit and the .005 could not.

I'm just having a hard time believing this scoot was this far out of spec and I am always fearful the motor will blow. Please let me know your thoughts of the above.  If I have to take it apart again I will, to check TDC...getting the proper torque spec seems impossible, but I don't have any other tricks unless they make a tool for the adjuster rod (to hold it).

...and again THANK YOU for your help!!!

zombie

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2014, 02:52:24 AM »
It HAS to be at tdc otherwise it is wrong. That may explain your finding it sooo far out of spec.

Re-do it.
 As far as the way you describe tightening the lock nuts you are doing the right thing. I twist the post by hand, and lightly seat the lock nut. Then with the gauge still in the gap I cinch it down. If it does over tighten I keep repeating until it is correct.

All spark plug gaps will open with age. It's a combo of heat cool cycles, and wearing away of the metal itself. No worries there.
Just take your time, and redo the valves, and all will be golden.

It's just a stupid engine, and in a battle of wits/will odds are in your favor.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

Stig / Major Tom

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2014, 09:36:36 PM »
Ok I just called the owner...great guy by the way, and he said he never touched the valves, just oil and trans oil.  So with that being said I agree with you Stig I doubt they would of sent it out NEW like this, but then again the plug was WAYYY off too. 

So here is my fear (even though the test ride went well): 

#1.  I may of not been at TDC since I did not pull on the rocker arms checking for movement (however I did pull the plug and put my socket extension down there to see if the piston was near the top, which it was). 

#2.  I did not use the torque specs provided for the valve adjuster.  Since it is so difficult to get it to spec
(trying to hold the adjuster with a needle nose) I got it close and snugged the adjuster nut. Then I would use the (next size up gap .005) gauge to see if it still fit, if it did I then used just the wrench and tightened 1/32ish of a turn to the right (since the nut carries the adjuster rod with it...thus making a smaller gap).  I when the .005 no loner fit in knew I was close and adjusted very carefully until the .004 could fit and the .005 could not.

I'm just having a hard time believing this scoot was this far out of spec and I am always fearful the motor will blow. Please let me know your thoughts of the above.  If I have to take it apart again I will, to check TDC...getting the proper torque spec seems impossible, but I don't have any other tricks unless they make a tool for the adjuster rod (to hold it).

...and again THANK YOU for your help!!!
OK, with Zombie riding shotgun we will get this sorted!
Your specs were too tight. Still some movement there - but too snug. Who knows why --- maybe the dealer at the first major servicing (200 or 600 miles) set the valves when the scoot had not been sitting overnight. In other words: owner brings in scoot for service. Waits in waiting room. Dealer lets engine cool some, then sets the valves. EVERYbody I respect as a mechanic says to ONLY do valves on a COLD engine ("overnight sitting" in the service bay)
Who knows?
But you are about to insure that they are perfect!
#1 Take the valve cover off again, spin the engine and look for those 3 holes to line up as shown. Now, grab that nut and pull/push on it. Got movement? No? Spin again 360 degrees. Line up the sprocket's 3 holes. Try for movement now. Got movement? Super....

#2 Now slip the .004 blade in there. I like what you're doing --- if the .004 fits and the .005 does not. You are good to go.No matter how or what you do with that center rod or the surrounding lock-nut....when you're all done messing with it and snugging things up IF THE .004 has a nice fit - You are GOOD TO GO!
I never torque little nuts like that -  I do not own an expensive fine adjusting torque wrench. Look at the nut - use your noggin and snug it. We're not trying to snap anything off - just a good snug tightening is perfect.

If you suspect that you did the orginal valve set at the wrong 360....Do the straw in the spark plug hole thing again to see when the piston is at its highest AND look at those 3 sprocket holes.
Rotate engine forward > check >  look > feeler gauge blades....take your time. No rush.

Consider doing this: once you've got everything spun to the proper place and valves all adjusted. Take off that disc by the fan, look in there with a flash light - find the marks stamped in the metal. Study that TDC image...maybe even use a touch of white-out paint to make things easier to spot the next time. MY TDC marks are so faint they are really hard to see. I applied a bit of white paint to both places.
Let us know how it's going....Zombie is pacing in his back yard - missing supper.
 As my 13 yr old daughter tells me :"You can do this thing, Pops."
Stig
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 09:59:06 PM by Stig »
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zombie

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2014, 11:23:38 PM »
Great post as always Stig. You could have mentioned me two or three more times as a Great guy, Patient to a fault, and perhaps the most Generous man alive but I appreciate the Cameo role.  ;D
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

bikz

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2014, 02:33:15 AM »
Thanks again, I will take her apart again and keep you posted!

bikz

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2014, 03:36:22 AM »
Ok just finished took 50 mins. exactly from start to finish, the valves had minimal movement each rotation; I turned it 4 full rotations and checked each time (the clearance never changed, .004/.1mm every time)...there was minimal movement each time in the nut to the adjustment post (is that correct, very slight movement, but movement?...and it was never locked up out of the 4 revolutions).  Thinking and hoping its good!:)

Stig / Major Tom

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Re: yeager valve adjust
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2014, 11:56:32 PM »
Ok just finished took 50 mins. exactly from start to finish, the valves had minimal movement each rotation; I turned it 4 full rotations and checked each time (the clearance never changed, .004/.1mm every time)...there was minimal movement each time in the nut to the adjustment post (is that correct, very slight movement, but movement?...and it was never locked up out of the 4 revolutions).  Thinking and hoping its good!:)
Sounds like you have it sorted. Yeah, the slight movent is that .004in.'s you're feeling. If you do not feel that movement, even if you have the sprocket showing those 3 holes in proper place - you need to turn 360 one more time. NOW with the 3 holes in their proper place and that slight .004in. wiggle in the nut you are at the place to use the feeler gauge.
Good job.
How does it sound?
Stig
How's it sound?
Boston Strong
Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

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