Author Topic: your thoughts on 87 octane gas  (Read 11537 times)

tomheet

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2010, 02:23:54 AM »
Rianna, yer gonna give me a nervous breakdown! I might need to take the anti-depressents out of the gas tank, and ingest them!!

tomheet

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2010, 02:27:18 AM »
As always, lots of good stuff to read and think about.(lots of laughs to) Think I'm coming down with flue or something, time for beddy bye. Thanks y'all, and good evening!!

wordslinger

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2010, 02:28:00 AM »
..peace out tom!!..

 ;D
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

Rianna

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2010, 02:28:23 AM »
OH NO!! So sorry, tom. Didn't mean to make ya nervous. I was just having a bit of fun with ya.  :)

Goodnight tom!

thebatman

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2010, 02:26:53 AM »
well i may as well put my 2 cents worth in...  :D  i run 93 octane/w octane boost all the time and thanks to a few here i also throw in seafoam. ;)   forget 87 octane. :D    i do run it in the lawnmower tho. :D ;D
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wordslinger

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2010, 02:29:40 AM »
i do run it in the lawnmower tho.

..i got a latino yard crew that cuts mine for me...lol...

..25 bucks every 4 or 5 weeks or so...lol..

 :o

..been hot here this year...
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

thebatman

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2010, 02:38:08 AM »
i am my own latino around here.  :D  :D  :D   gets cut every week, well was. did skip last week. ;)   dam skippy, its been hot this summer.. already had frost here last week, mon. and tues.. :o :-\
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CONLEY

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2010, 05:14:47 PM »
found this online




Fuel octane requirements for gasoline engines vary with the compression ratio of the engine; Engine compression ratio is the relative volume of a cylinder from the bottom most position of the piston's stroke to the top most position of the piston's stroke. The higher an engine's compression ratio, the greater the amount of heat generated in the cylinder during the compression stroke. Posted octane numbers on gasoline pumps are a result of testing fuel performance under laboratory and actual operating conditions. The higher the octane rating on fuel the less volatile (evaporative qualities) and the slower the fuel burns. Higher octane fuel contains more POTENTIAL energy but requires the higher heat generated by higher compression ratio engines to properly condition the fuel to RELEASE that higher potential energy. In the refining process, fewer gallons of higher octane fuels are yielded from a barrel of raw crude, thus the higher cost. If fuel octane is too low for a given compression ratio, the fuel prematurely and spontaneously ignites too early and the fuel charge EXPLODES rather than BURNS resulting in incomplete combustion. The net effect is a loss in power and possible engine damage. The operator hears an audible "knock" or "ping", referred to as detonation. Detonation may vary from a faint noise on light acceleration to a constant, deep hammering noise while driving at a constant speed. Improper timing adjustments, vacuum leaks, or excessively lean fuel mixtures may also cause detonation. Many vehicle owners believe that higher octane fuels are better for their vehicles since they are labeled "PREMIUM." The logic is that since it is a premium fuel it must be better. In reality, the premium label originates from the higher cost to refine and the resultant higher retail cost. Some refiners label their high octane fuels "SUPER." Some owners think that these fuels will make their vehicles more powerful. This is a MYTH! Only engines with high compression ratios can deliver all the potential energy from higher octane fuels! Always consult the manufacturer's octane recommendation to determine the proper octane requirements for any given vehicle. Generally, engines with compression ratios of 9.3 : 1 or less will safely operate with unleaded 87 octane fuel. Engines with higher compression ratios usually require higher octane fuels. But many modern engines will safely burn 87 octane even with a higher compression ratio. This is accomplished by way to the engine fuel/air management system. Many owners who operate vehicles designed to operate on 87 octane fuel experience ping and knock. They usually "fix" this problem by purchasing the higher priced, higher octane fuels. Most owner's manuals indicate that some light and intermittent ping is normal but that heavy or sustained ping or knock should be attended to by either purchasing the correct octane fuel or servicing the engine. Most fuel refiners blend fuels for geographic areas and adjust their blends seasonally. These blending techniques compensate for the decrease in oxygen content with an increase in altitude and compensate for volatility during the warmer or cooler seasons. Significant ambient temperature changes (40 degrees Fahrenheit) or altitude changes (4,000 feet) may cause some serious engine detonation. This problem is usually corrected by filling the tank with "local" fuel that has been properly blended for season and altitude. Bottom line is do not waste your money on a fuel with a higher octane than your engine requires. You reap no benefits, and are just wasting money.

tomheet

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2010, 12:22:55 AM »
conley, thanks for posting that. At the end of the day, this "proves" that going with the manual specs usually is the correct way to approach things. It's like with engine oil, many people (I among them) believed you should go with a lighter weight in winter, heavier in the summer. Nonsense, with today's tight tolerance engines. An engine is DESIGNED  with a particular oil weight in mind, and running a heavier oil will PREVENT proper lubrication. I switched back to the  service manual recommended 92-95 octane. And, running 87 octane did not cause  cold starting to be any easier. nonetheless, interesting reading.

wordslinger

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2010, 01:38:54 AM »
..very good reading....

 ;D

..still...speaking from my own experience, with my first scooter, a 2008 agility 50 4t...

..she ALWAYS performs better with 93 octane fuel, as opposed to 87...

..i've tried 87 several times, and every time i did, my scoot's overall performance...from idle all the way to full-throttle down-hills running, fell off....when burning the lower octane fuel...

..

..every engine setup is different...
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

Calothrix

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2010, 03:22:15 AM »
The article found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating  shows how octane is measured differently in various countries.  Here are a few lines from the link:

"Anti-Knock Index (AKI)
In most countries, including all of those of Australia and Europe the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States and some other countries, like Brazil, the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI, and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2). It may also sometimes be called the Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2.

Difference between RON and AKI
Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane rating shown in the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the rating shown elsewhere in the world for the same fuel."

This could explain why the required octane rating found in some (all?) Kymco owner's manuals is higher than what is typically used in the U.S.

Rianna

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2010, 03:28:52 AM »
Thank you, Calothrix. I have wondered about that.

Calothrix

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2010, 05:08:42 PM »
You're welcome!

Emil

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2010, 06:30:08 PM »
92 octane in Europe is about 89 octane in the USA. When I filled up with 89 in the winter I had trouble getting the engine started. That's why I am always using 92 now.

axy

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Re: your thoughts on 87 octane gas
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2010, 06:48:22 PM »
92 octane in Europe is about 89 octane in the USA. When I filled up with 89 in the winter I had trouble getting the engine started. That's why I am always using 92 now.

Usually in Western Europe you cannot get anything less than 95 octane.

We had 91 octane as the first lead free gasoline 20 years ago, and I still remember lead gasoline that was 87 I think when I was a kid. :)

I've seen 89-90-91-92 in the East, for example, in Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan...
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