Air cooled scooters, cooling?

[Kansas kymco]

Since all the Kymco's I own are water cooled I have a question on the air cooled machines.  Do you ever have a issue in hot weather overheating? Just wondering if there's a oil cooler for a non-pressurized oil system? 

[Like50]

Two times in this season, I think it overheated but not 100% sure. After few minutes waiting back to normal. Both times with full gas more than half an hour. RPM maybe around 7000 with these cases. 50 cc fourstroke engine, limited speed 45 kmh.

[scooterfan]

............. Just wondering if there's a oil cooler for a non-pressurized oil system?

Yes, aftermarket oil cooler adaptors are available - it has been discussed elsewhere at this forum some time ago. The adaptors mount to the big oil drain plugs on our scooters.

I think using those adaptors might not be a good idea. It looks like the adaptors get mounted at the suction side of the oil pumps. This means the oil needs to be sucked from the oil sump, through both cooler hoses, and through the oil cooler before it reaches the suction side of the oil pump.
I do not trust a systym like that, I think oil coolers should always be mounted on the outlet side of oil pumps - like on all vehicles, trucks, tractors, motorcycles, etc. out there.
I think specially at higher RPM’s the oil pump on a scooter with a cooler system on the suction side of the oil pump might battle to get enough oil to feed oil to other components properly.

Having said that - when I did a Google search to see what the oil cooler adaptors look like, I noticed that at least one seller advised prospective buyers to install a “high flow” oil
pump at the same time when the buyers want to install the oil cooler adaptors.
I think there is a bery good reason behind the sellers advice - an ordinary oil pump will most probably battle to suck sufficiant oil at high engine RPM’s.
The aftermarket high flow oil pumps have wider gears - so I think it should ensure better oil suction through the adaptor, hoses, and oil cooler before the oil get sucked into the oil pump.

[Stig / Major Tom]

I don't live where it often gets near 100°F....but do see a lot of high 90's.
I often stop for photos with the engine idling.
Never had a problem with my aircooled scooters.

I actually look for aircooled engines when shopping a new scooter.
Several decades of owning aircooled VWs has influnced my preference for their simplicity,  reliability and lack of additional parts.
Consider how many aircooled scooters are running problem free on 3rd world roads.
Stig


 

[scooterfan]

Two times in this season, I think it overheated but not 100% sure. After few minutes waiting back to normal. Both times with full gas more than half an hour. RPM maybe around 7000 with these cases. 50 cc fourstroke engine, limited speed 45 kmh.

I think our scooters are simply not designed to run at high speed for extended periods. In a way engine oil also helps to cool the engine down. As a result of the small volume of oil in our scooters I think the oil and other components will heat up a lot more at very high RPM’s.

Having said that - I actually prefer forced air cooled engines like on our scooters. With global warming in mind - I am not convinced that all liquid cooled engines are designed to handle the higher temperatures we get these days. At least our air cooled engines will not end up having blown head gaskets during possible overheating problems - compared to liquid cooled engines.

As far as I know only air cooled trucks like Magirus Deutz have been used in the Sahara desert in Africa at one stage. To my understanding this was due to the fact that all trucks with water cooled engines used to have overheating problems.
So I think if we just ride at moderate speed with our scooters  when it’s really hot, our air cooled engines will not overheat.

[Kansas kymco]

What got me thinking about the oil cooler was the fact my truck has a small power steering oil cooler and a manual transmission oil cooler on it. The power steering oil cooler looked like the perfect size for a scooter.  Even the little Honda 50cc  is water cooled with a tiny radiator for engine temperature control. 

I've had a plethora of air cooled dirt bikes in my life without issues but now the majority of those are water cooled. I would think a cooler,  oil or water  would help with engine longevity.

[scooterfan]

I think due to the the fact that the air cooler will be located at the suction side of the oil pumps ( when the aftermarket oil plug adaptors get used on our scooters) specially the height of the oil cooler will be very important.
For example, I think if the cooler gets mounted too high, the oil will probably drain into the sump when the engine is not running. In such a case the oil pump will probably run almost dry when the engine gets started again - and the oil pump will probably not be able to suck oil through the cooler system when the engine get started again.

I am just guessing, but I think an owner needs to know exactly how to install an oil cooler modification on these scooters - otherwise the modification might ruin the engine.
In short - my nerves are simply not strong enough to try one of these aftermarket oil cooling systems.

[Like50]

I agree that these small 50 cc moped are not for full throttle driving long period in warm circumstanses. Luckily, the quality of motor oil, has come up giant leeping, and cools the engine better and better. What must be understood is, that chancing oil is the only way to keep it going. I have seen "often", that people think like " this is so good/expensive oil that it will do twice time than recommend". Then the engine cuts by overheating, and do half as normal, and the stupid engineer is to be blaimed 
In my opinion, the gasoline also cools the engine a bit, there is a difference to use "smallengine fourstroke gasoline" than regular 98e. The burning is more clean etc.
Decade ago, I did 130 km trip at summer with Peugeot Trekker 50 cc, twostroke, limited 45 kmh, with full speed, and there was no worries whatsoever. Maybe that is partly, why I assume that every moped "should" last full throttle use "more"  (second opinion )
Also one comparing: I use fishing, a 2 hp Honda fourstroke aircooling, and it does easily for example two hour period full gas with very hot circumstanses. With one liter gas per hour  .
 Have a great weekend everybody, and use glooming vest when driving.

[Stig / Major Tom]

What got me thinking about the oil cooler was the fact my truck has a small power steering oil cooler and a manual transmission oil cooler on it. The power steering oil cooler looked like the perfect size for a scooter.  Even the little Honda 50cc  is water cooled with a tiny radiator for engine temperature control. 

I've had a plethora of air cooled dirt bikes in my life without issues but now the majority of those are water cooled. I would think a cooler,  oil or water  would help with engine longevity.

Somewhere in my Dell's sock drawer I have a photo of an orange LIKE200i with an oil cooler mounted between where you place your feet.
So, it has been done.
Stig

[Kansas kymco]

Somewhere in my Dell's sock drawer I have a photo of an orange LIKE200i with an oil cooler mounted between where you place your feet.
So, it has been done.
Stig

On my water cooled Kymco's the radiator is behind the front tire flush with the bottom of the faring/plastic. This looks like the ideal spot for a oil cooler as well. Very short distance from the engine and level with the engine. 

What brought this on was a Super 8 150 for sale that's air cooled and 368 original  miles on it.  I like the 14 inch tires as well but still a carbureted machine and air cooled.

[Stig / Major Tom]

On my water cooled Kymco's the radiator is behind the front tire flush with the bottom of the faring/plastic. This looks like the ideal spot for a oil cooler as well. Very short distance from the engine and level with the engine. 

What brought this on was a Super 8 150 for sale that's air cooled and 368 original  miles on it.  I like the 14 inch tires as well but still a carbureted machine and air cooled.

If you can believe what Robot says - carbed engines are a bad idea with today's fuel....unless you love to tinker and clean.
He loves EFI.
He also said Kymco's are crap.
So, there's that.

Stig

[Kansas kymco]

If you can believe what Robot says - carbed engines are a bad idea with today's fuel....unless you love to tinker and clean.
He loves EFI.
He also said Kymco's are crap.
So, there's that.

Stig

I believe in knowledge over opinion. Carburetors are fine and less complicated then FI but not as good. If you use non-ethanol gasoline with a little Seafoam for a stabilizer/cleaner I have found them problem free. My yard equipment is over 30 years old and carbureted.  None of the carburetors  have needed to be cleaned in 30 years.  Curious which is older my yard equipment or Robot?

[john grinsel]

Forced air cooling=fine.   Just by wind passing by=not so good.

[Stig / Major Tom]

I believe in knowledge over opinion. Carburetors are fine and less complicated then FI but not as good. If you use non-ethanol gasoline with a little Seafoam for a stabilizer/cleaner I have found them problem free. My yard equipment is over 30 years old and carbureted.  None of the carburetors  have needed to be cleaned in 30 years.  Curious which is older my yard equipment or Robot?

Speaking with a tech at a big Stihl shop re. modern 10% gas ( which is ALL we have around here),  he said mowers, weed eaters, chain saws are designed to run on anything with NO additives needed. Something about the tolerances in the carbs.
I never used, or let sit, anything but 10% gas in my lawn equipment. ....and never had an issue in the spring.
Don't know why scooters are so picky about gas.
Stig

[Kansas kymco]

Speaking with a tech at a big Stihl shop re. modern 10% gas ( which is ALL we have around here),  he said mowers, weed eaters, chain saws are designed to run on anything with NO additives needed. Something about the tolerances in the carbs.
I never used, or let sit, anything but 10% gas in my lawn equipment. ....and never had an issue in the spring.
Don't know why scooters are so picky about gas.
Stig

I beleive you mean 10% ethonal 90% gas or known as E-10

Yes modern equipment is designed to run on it with no harm to internal carburetor parts. The trouble comes from storing ethanol fuel, over a period of time the ethanol will absorb moisture out of the air.

If your equipment is always in use ethanol fuel is not a issue it's when it sits stagnant for long periods of time. In hot humid weather ethanol fuel can cause issues in a few months. Ethanol free fuel also know as pure gas or E-0 with a stabilizer can be kept up to two years.