Won't Start

[CROSSBOLT]

Test the by starter with voltage. You tested it with an ohm meter and got 2 ohms. What source said it should be 20 ohms?
You have tested for fuel flow and it is good, right?
Compression good, right?
Tested with starter fluid and got no reaction, right? FIRST INDICATION OF A PROBLEM that may interfere with starting! I am with Iowa Hawk (Iahawk) on this. OK, now find out why.

[bmurph44]

Test the by starter with voltage. You tested it with an ohm meter and got 2 ohms. What source said it should be 20 ohms?

I was using this link

http://www.scooterfocus.com/scooter_troubleshooting.html

[Iahawk]

not sure you're looking at the right issue...if it won't start with starter fluid then replacing the auto bystarter likely won't make any difference.  The starter fluid should have more than made up for the additional (or lack of additional) fuel provided by the bystarter.

have you tested your battery for proper volts as scooterfan suggested?

[CROSSBOLT]

I was using this link

http://www.scooterfocus.com/scooter_troubleshooting.html

That link looks like good advice as trouble shooting sequence. What lahawk, scooterfan and I are saying is don't start throwing parts at this problem until your troubleshooting shows you need that part.
Now I have a question about verifying your meter reading: what scale are you using tonget your reading of 2 ohms?

[bmurph44]

That link looks like good advice as trouble shooting sequence. What lahawk, scooterfan and I are saying is don't start throwing parts at this problem until your troubleshooting shows you need that part.
Now I have a question about verifying your meter reading: what scale are you using tonget your reading of 2 ohms?

I agree on the throwing parts at it but I have always suspected the choke wasn't working properly and it was only 7 dollars so no big loss if that's not the problem. Full disclosure I'm not an electrician, I was using a regular voltmeter with the ohm setting.

[bmurph44]

not sure you're looking at the right issue...if it won't start with starter fluid then replacing the auto bystarter likely won't make any difference.  The starter fluid should have more than made up for the additional (or lack of additional) fuel provided by the bystarter.

have you tested your battery for proper volts as scooterfan suggested?

The battery is new this year.

[Iahawk]

I wouldn't automatically assume a new battery is good or that the charging system is working properly.
Battery with scoot off should be ~12.7, no less than ~12.5.
With scooter running should read between 13.6 - 14.5

there's also a minimum reading for when you're cranking the engine over...can't recall that one...you may want to check it and post your results here for others to weigh in on.

[CROSSBOLT]

I wouldn't automatically assume a new battery is good or that the charging system is working properly.
Battery with scoot off should be ~12.7, no less than ~12.5.
With scooter running should read between 13.6 - 14.5

there's also a minimum reading for when you're cranking the engine over...can't recall that one...you may want to check it and post your results here for others to weigh in on.

For EFI no less than about 10 volts while cranking. 9.5 volts will crank the engine over but it will NOT start and run.
Don't know with CDI...AC or DC...

[scooterfan]

I find myself in a big city and we have many battery shops in our area. All of them have high quality specialised equipment to do a proper load test on a battery.
I never do a test with my Multimeter to see if the battery is still in good condition, simply because a Multimeter can easily give an unreliable indication about battery heath. The reason being - a faulty battery can still give “full” reading for a couple of seconds, but the voltage actually start dropping after a couple of seconds while the battery is under load.
Specialised equipment and trained staff at battery shops give a far better indication whether a battery is faulty or not. All batteries with different specs have different minimum requirements to meet during a proper load test. The different batteries have to hold power for a specific time (seconds) when under a specific load - and this load differ from battery to battery, which depends on battery size / capasity.

So without knowlege about how many seconds a spesific  battery is suppose to hold full charge before the Voltage start dropping under load, it is simply impossible to do a proper DIY test with a Multimeter to see if a battery is still in good condition.

Fact is - even a reliable battery dealer can not do a battery test on a battery if the battery is not fully charged. Therefore I always but a battery on a battery charger, and make sure I get a full Volt reading (12Volt +) with my Multimeter on the battery BEFORE I take the battery to a battery shop fora proper load test.

In short - I do not have proper load test equipment and I have no knowledge about how many seconds any of the batteries on my vehicles is suppose to hold power when under load. Battery specialists put different loads on different size batteries to do a proper tests and without their knowledge and equipment it is simply impossible for myself to do a proper load test on any of my batteries.

[jeeves]

Same problem with scoot after it hasn't been used for a week or so.
For some reason it's then easier to start it using the kick starter.
Same thing on wife's Vespa et50.




Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

[scooterfan]

Same problem with scoot after it hasn't been used for a week or so.
For some reason it's then easier to start it using the kick starter.
Same thing on wife's Vespa et50.




Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

I think this could be a good indication that the battery is not fully charged, or the battery is on it’s way out.
The reason being- when you press the started button the starter start swinging, and when the starter swings it causes a further Voltage drop at the battery. That further voltage drop means the CDI will not get sufficient Voltage from the battery to generate a proper spark at the spark plug.
When you only use the kick starter, the additional Voltage drop actually does not take place because the starter motor does not get activated.

[jeeves]

I think this could be a good indication that the battery is not fully charged, or the battery is on it’s way out.
The reason being- when you press the started button the starter start swinging, and when the starter swings it causes a further Voltage drop at the battery. That further voltage drop means the CDI will not get sufficient Voltage from the battery to generate a proper spark at the spark plug.
When you only use the kick starter, the additional Voltage drop actually does not take place because the starter motor does not get activated.

The battery is at least 5 years old, so it's not as good as new, but it still holds capacity, and spins the starter with no apparent struggle.
I'd does take a few kicks to get the scooter started, and that is always after using the electric starter first.

For some reason when the scooter is in everyday use it starts immediately when cold.
If I turn it off and start again in the next few minutes, it also starts with no problem.
If I leave it for more then 5-10 minutes then I have to give a bit of throttle and rev it some to get it started otherwise I need to crank it more then I feel comfortable doing.




Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

[CROSSBOLT]

Here is a 'scope trace of battery voltage during a successful start on a 300 cc DT engine. The voltage levels are shown by the yellow trace on the black screen (for those who may have never seen one of these things). The two flat topped "peaks" on the left are when the starter is revolving the engine EASILY. That is the critical part of the trace. If I recall correctly, that was about 10.5 volts on a good battery, the start was normal and the ultimate after start voltage was 14. something.

The point here is all digital meters have a "scan rate" that sometimes is so slow that it may miss showing something that happens pretty fast like this start sequence. The cheaper the digital meter the slower the scan rate. The other limiting factor is the guy looking at the meter display! You may miss a reading even with the best of meters. What I am concluding is you have to adapt to what you have and you can still make good decisions if you are persistent and insightful.

One of the 500i guys here developed a scheme for a second small battery that powered only the ECU so the darn thing would spark the plug while cranking! Genius!

[scooterfan]

I never tried the kickstarter on my scooter before , but if the engine battles to start after the scooter was standing for a couple of days I will try the kickstarter to see what happens.

[bmurph44]

Today the electric choke was delivered, installed it and still wont start.

New electric choke, I checked the battery, its new and good also tried using the kick start, I have spark to the spark plug, pulled the fuel line at the carburetor cranked it and fuel is flowing to the carb, shot some starter fluid in the intake.

At this point I'm pretty much out of ideas except to rebuild the carburetor which is something I don't feel comfortable doing myself.