Lithium battery factoids

[CROSSBOLT]

Latest info about lithium batteries some, including me, might not know:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1545734985675030/permalink/2771273693121147/

[Kansas kymco]

You have to be a member of farce book in order to read.

[CROSSBOLT]

Condensed version: 1. Use lithium charger on lithium batteries
                                     2. Do NOT jump start lithium batteries from car or anything else.*



                                     *Bad things happen when you do this.

[Kansas kymco]

Condensed version: 1. Use lithium charger on lithium batteries
                                     2. Do NOT jump start lithium batteries from car or anything else.*



                                     *Bad things happen when you do this.

That's basically what the representative for Bike Master told me. When they sent a replacement lithium battery they wanted me to purchase a Lithium battery maintainer. 

[Stig / Major Tom]

One more:
When I worked on a psych ward in Mass. - we gave Lithium to manic-depressive patients.
Smoothed out their lives....but required close supervision and freq. blood tests. (therapeutic level was close to the toxic level in the blood)
Stig

[airshot]

Lipo batteries are a great tool when used with strict guidlines!! Been using them for years in radio control toys, adult toys that is as they are not intended for youngsters without strict adult supervision.  The problem with lipo batteries is when they are misshandled....wrong type of charger, crossed with different battery types such as jump starting...lipo batteries catch fire easily, and burn quickly and white hot!!!   I saw one catch fire and burn thru a steel top table in 20 seconds....all because it was hooked to the wrong charger.  The guy turned it on and walked away, within those 20 seconds it ignited so fast and burned white hot right thru the table and onto a concrete floor. An extinguisher was at hand but not fast enough to cause serious damage. 
Yes lipos are great batteries but consider carefully how it will be used and taken care of.  For scooters, motorbikes, atv's  etc I find agm batteries to be a less costly and safer bet in the long run.  Would never trade my lipo 's. In my RC toys as they are perfectly designed for that purpose but in motor vehicles where inpact and chance of being connected to non lipo chargers and other batteries.....not a good idea!!

[Kansas kymco]

Airshot, I decided to go with a AGM as well and the new lithium battery and charger sits in the box it arrived in.  Right next to the battery on the BMW is 5 gallons of fuel as well.  Don't get me wrong love my cordless lithium powered tools just not sure in a motorcycle.

I put a new AGM battery in the 500 Xicting because of age of the old battery. I took the old AGM out and put it in my riding lawnmower,  it's from  2011 and still going.

[CROSSBOLT]

What airshot said plus:

Remember the Boeing 777 fires? Lithium batteries...big ones! Big fires, much panic..

[randyo]

if you only charge lithium batteries with a special lithium battery charger....

how does it work, when you replace the oem gel battery with a lithium, without also replacing your alternator/regulator to one specifically designed to charge lithium batteries

I am very interested, I am working on a plan for an extreme arctic ride, I want 800cca available, but don't think lithium is the way to go, for cold starts

[CROSSBOLT]

if you only charge lithium batteries with a special lithium battery charger....

how does it work, when you replace the oem gel battery with a lithium, without also replacing your alternator/regulator to one specifically designed to charge lithium batteries

I am very interested, I am working on a plan for an extreme arctic ride, I want 800cca available, but don't think lithium is the way to go, for cold starts

Good question on charging system. Many have tried lipo and life and suffered no problems with existing charge systems.
If my Segway is any indication, lithium batteries DO NOT LIKE COLD!

[Ex-KLR]

Unlike lead-acid batteries,  Lithium batteries shut down with warning when the charge is depleted.

[airshot]

Absolutely dont use lipos in cold as it severly depletes there charge.  The cold does not hurt the battery, it just lets the charge deplete much quicker.  As for your charging system.....look at the cost of lipo batteries used in motor vehicles, the cost is really high as there is a built into the battery a regulator so it can be charged off your vehicle, thus the high cost!  From my search those that have spent the money on lipos for there vehicles have not been impressed with them.  We need to remember that lipos are designed for high draw electrical use, they discharge at a high rate but maintain voltage for a longer period of time, perfect for radio control toys but do we really have high draw in our vehicles??  For that same reason the batteries charge differently, they reach max volts quickly, but then require a slow charge to build up the amps, just oposite of a standard battery.
In our tools like drills you find the drill capable of full power for a much longer time then suddenly stop as a lipo cannot drop below 3.7 volts per cell, if it does the battery wont charge back up.  Full charge is 4.2 volts per cell.

[christianblessing]

There seems some confusion here. There are two primary types of lithium batteries commonly used: lithium ion (li-ion) and lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo4). "Lipo" batteries (lithium polymer) are identical to lithium-ion except that they use a gel electrolyte.

Power tools and other applications requiring high discharge typically use li-ion. They have much higher energy density and can, if handled or charged improperly, suffer internal shorting and thermal runaway.

Lithium iron phosphate batteries are less energy-dense, and the chemistry is far and away more stable and tolerant of misuse or improper charging. They are essentially incapable of thermal runaway.

Those dramatic hoverboard conflagrations in the news a few years ago demonstrated the hazards of poorly manufactured and poorly handled lithium ion batteries.

And yes, don't charge below freezing except at a very low current. Doing otherwise results in irreversible damage to the anode.


Sent from my MI PAD 4 using Tapatalk

[gctkaz]

I tried the first-generation LiFePO4 batteries when they came to market, Ballistic brand. I was not impressed with it back then. Did not last long, and needed manual balance charging which I did with a hobby charger since I have one for my RC toys. Went back to AGM for a few years.

Modern LiFePO4 are great in my opinion, and I have them installed in each of my three bikes/scooters - one Antigravity brand, and two Kepworth (Chinese, bought from aliexpress). Vastly improved over the first-generation lithium batteries, although many articles you read might still rag on them as if they are the same. Recent batteries have built-in BMS to keep the cells internally balanced so you don't get those dangerous overcharged cells. I have had mine installed for about a year and a half - they keep the charge better than AGM in my experience, crank reliably, and have great capacity for their physical size. For what I paid for the Kepworth batteries, I am extremely pleased - they even have a built-in digital voltage display and came shipped with their own smart charger.

[wymple]

I fail to see the need for concern. I just rum AGM batteries, no worries and no problems. And less money.