Malossi o malo(ssi)

[Ruffus]

Since there was some time and good will available during Christmas holidays l thought it might be a good idea to check up on my slightly rattling but otherwise neatly working CVT.
Well it came out, to my surprise, that there was a MALOSSI variator installed. So l have OEM KYMCO variator rollers , which l bought in advance, as spare parts.
After dismantling it gave me the reason for this rattling sound l heard AND felt.
Malossi variators have a bigger axle (27 mm) than Kymco.This axle shows a lot of pitting and worn surface (chrome failure/loss), this again was grinding off the inner diameter of variators steel lining. Causing a reduction of axles and lining diameter of about 0.75mm and therefore some play( pls see pics)

All over was red dust which l mistook for burned paint, but is magnetic, so its shaved off metal.
(pls see pics).
To improve all this l ordered Dr.P. sqare rollers and and new Malossi variator to install. It comes with a new clutch spring too.
Rollers arrived from Germany and Malossi parts will come next days.
Malossi rollers (roll shaped) where pretty much eaten up. (hexagonal/octagonal)
According to some german forum this might have been caused by faulty sliders and/or rought variators surface, where rollers got stuck and .....
Will tell the outcome.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Nice write-up Ruffus,

By the way.....the sliders in your photo are not from Dr. Pulley.

Here is a quote written by Dr. Pulley on another forum:
"By the way, Dr.Pulley is not same as TechPulley or Mr.Pulley"

They also attempt to explain why, if Dr. P's are so good - they are not installed as standard in scooters. [gets a little fuzzy here]

Again, thanks for your interesting posts on the LIKE.
I'm going to my Kymco dealer today. He has a new LIKE200i left-over model. I'm going to put it on the center stand and check amount of rear wheel fore-aft gear free-play on a new LIKE, and compare it to mine at home.

Stig

[Ruffus]

@Stig, thanks
(Here is a quote written by Dr. Pulley on another forum:
"By the way, Dr.Pulley is not same as TechPulley or Mr.Pulley" )
You see, this l did not check out, this fine differences..

[Ruffus]

Like l said to do some testing on my LIKE's MALOSSI variator and original clutch.
Malossi spareparts came from an italian shop inclusive a white clutch coil spring.

Tested two variations:
a) Malossi variator with 20/17, 9.5 gr TechPülley rollers and new white spring.
This setup is revving pretty high (too high for my ear) but takes off like the proverbial "bat out of the..."
..so it came to variant

b) Malossi variator with original new 20/17, 11.5 gr Malossi (round) rollers and the new Malossi white spring within my clutch;
this gave the same end-speed (100 km/h), but already less revvs in low speed (40-50 km/h), takes off fast enough..
..made me more happy, still too high revvs for me, but l will try another setup as soon a new set of TechPülleys 13 grams arrive.

Plan is:
-to install this 20/17, 13 gr TechPülleys and reduce their weight by drilling out each time 0.5 grams of each until l'm completely satisfied with acceleration, revvs at low speed and end speed.
As l wrote in an other thread, "it's fun to tinker with..".

[Ruffus]

Some say it's an art, some say it's foolishness, well, l would say if you have time and a scooterlift, just do it, that ROLLER testing on your scoot.
Those where the canditates: (pls see pics)
-TechPülley 9.5 gr
-Dr.Pulleys 13.0 gr
-Malossi original 9.5 gr/11.5 gr
-Tecnium (Spain brand) 14.0 gr
A) TechPülley were way to light with 9.5 gr so l made them to 12.0 grams.
Still too light, revvs too hight but acceleration,
wooouw....

B)Dr.Pulleys 13.0 gram, smooth acceleration at all speeds, very quiet, but still too hysterical and high revving at low speed, to me.

C)Malossi original 9.5 and 11.5 gram, way too light and noisy. Made them to 13.5 gram, then they were better in noise and low speed, but wore out and had flat spots after 200 kms.

D)Tecnium Dyno 14.0 gr roller, combine all benefits other rollers have (acceleration, quiet, lasting without bald spots) brought up.
So, for me this Tecnium Dyno rollers are my favourites.
It was a very individuell testing on one scoot only, but this is what l saw and heard.

[Ruffus]

...just some more pics to that tread.

[Stig / Major Tom]

I listened to Vivo years ago (a trusted old member here, living in the Philippines) and tried his Dr Pulleys in my LIKE200i.
After just two different weights - I settled on 14gm Dr P's. I liked their rpm's at my cruising speed, and - thought once again today, when accelerating hard from an uphill start on a 50mph road - that this little 163cc engine still pulls pretty darn strong!

Glad you're staying busy during covid!

Stig

[Iahawk]

Ruffus, lots of great info! Very interesting that you're able to try different types and weights of rollers. I believe our scoots (my People S200 shares much with your Like 200i) use 14 gr rollers as OEM. Stig went with the same 14 gr Dr Pulleys.

It's my understanding that a lighter roller will give you faster acceleration with the downside (there's always a down side, right?) of a lower top speed.

Heavier rollers should do the opposite...slower acceleration but a higher top speed?

I also didn't think it was wise to drastically change roller weights above or below the OEM (but what do I know? )

I'd like to see a test of 13, 14 and 15 gram rollers and sliders to see the difference. Slightly lighter and slightly heavier. I don't recall seeing this type of comparison anywhere..I guess it just takes some money and some time to do a test like this.

Thank you for keeping us informed on the various modifications on your scooter, Ruffus, always good stuff!

[Stig / Major Tom]

As well as top speed and acceleration..
....different weights can affect your RPMs more than you might like.
Lighter weights will make you engine spin significantly faster at 30mph - than it did with a heavier weight.
Stig




.

[Ruffus]

@Stig yes, right now l'm using upgraded Dr.Ps 13.0 to 14.0 gr. Since 14.0 gr Dr.Ps seem to be the ultimate choice (noise, performance, top speed...), l ordered such ones already and will change to this as soon as they arrive.

@lahawk, txs for your words.
Change in performance with extremely lighter rollers (9.5 gr instead of 13 - 14 gr) gives you a juvenile traffic-light start on your scoot. No chance for anyone to beat your take-off. Maybe an F1 derivate. The flipside of this game is a howling of your engine in high revvs  (guess 4000 rpm) at a speed of 40 km/ h), so way too high. End speed full throttle reduced for about 10 km/h to 90-95 km/h (odo).

So, to civilize this howler and to  make it rideable on public streets again, l for my part prescribed it 14.0 gr or even heavier rollers to keep revvs at low speed in digestible figures. Here you are still good at traffic-light starts, but you are not the champ anymore, and you have to give in to (lets say) a Porsche 911 4.0 ltrs. Top speed rises for appr. 10 km/h and you might get afraid of your own daredevilness.

But this is how we Sooteristi are.😉

P.S.: even if here John will disagree heavily.
At this enormous speeds you need a high windscreen... or did you ever see a fighter-jet without?

[pa-outdoorsman]

Interesting that in the Honda ADV 150, stock rollers are 20 grams. This bike shares the same engine with the PCX 150, which I believe comes with 18 gram rollers. And in most of the testing I have seen, the people doing the mods are saying the best overall performance (combination of improved acceleration and higher top-end speed, with crazy low-end RPMs) is coming with 12 gram rollers.

Now, that's a significant drop from the 20 gram stock weight, but there is data out there showing tachometer and dynomometer readings to back up the claims.

Again, what do I know? I've never messed around with this stuff, but I suppose it's an intriguing enough topic that every scooter rider -- at least once in their life -- is probably going to blow a couple hundred bucks getting an aftermarket variator and different roller weights and experimenting. It is necessary? Absolutely not. Will it prove beneficial? That's debatable. But is it fun to play with? Absolutely!

[Stig / Major Tom]

Interesting that in the Honda ADV 150, stock rollers are 20 grams. This bike shares the same engine with the PCX 150, which I believe comes with 18 gram rollers. And in most of the testing I have seen, the people doing the mods are saying the best overall performance (combination of improved acceleration and higher top-end speed, with crazy low-end RPMs) is coming with 12 gram rollers.

Now, that's a significant drop from the 20 gram stock weight, but there is data out there showing tachometer and dynomometer readings to back up the claims.

Again, what do I know? I've never messed around with this stuff, but I suppose it's an intriguing enough topic that every scooter rider -- at least once in their life -- is probably going to blow a couple hundred bucks getting an aftermarket variator and different roller weights and experimenting. It is necessary? Absolutely not. Will it prove beneficial? That's debatable. But is it fun to play with? Absolutely!

Higher top speed, better acceleration......etc. I guess are possible. But I don't want a lugging engine, or a screaming engine. Then there's changing the gearing......

Ah me
My experience has been that Kymco, Honda, Suzuki and Piaggio did a pretty good job in their orig. set-ups.

Respectfully - think I'll go ride my scooter

Stig

[Ruffus]

Here a short update on KOSO square CVT pieces.
-tried just for fun very inexpensive 15 gr rollers in my LIKE 200 and wasn't happy with performance (scoot didn't come to end-speed) and acceleration.
-so I reduced this pieces from 15 to 14gr, and after a short testride it looks like they behave like Dr.Ps or TechPülleys. (pls see pics)
These markings on them are just superficially and most probably caused by my application of silicon grease. Time will tell how they last.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Ruffus,
Applying anything (grease, silicone, teflon powder, etc.) to the roller weights, or their carrier, is a controversial practice!
 Some think it is needed. Others say that when adding anything - it will just become a collector, on the weights and/or their carrier, of the black powdery stuff we always find inside the  belt cover.
I just clean these parts, and assemble.
Your thoughts?
Stig.

[Ruffus]

@Stig, yes you're 100% right about grease or any other smear applied onto CVT bowels, being a dust/abbrasive collector. If not requested by technical manual.
In this case it was try/error because the quares surface/mold borders felt a little rough for my taste. And to sand and lather them...I was to curious how it works.
The idea was to let (casing/squares/ramp plate) smoothen themself together by adhered grease and dust as an abbrasive. And it did to a certain level polish all three components.
(pls see pic)
 Was just a try and worked. Usually I would not grease any CVT except explicitely directed and shown in certain closed 8 roller CVTs.