People Gti 125 won't start

[Faber32]

Hi everyone. New here and really need for your help. My people GTI 125 (2015, BF25AA engine) doesn't start. Battery is 6 years old but voltage is good (12.7 V), it cranks fine and strong and during cranking it has 11.2 V so I think is still good. It started after many attempts the last days, and now won't start at all. I checked the spark plug (grounding it) and it sparks good (I suppose). I checked the voltage of the ECU wires to the fuel pump and it's ok (they have the battery voltage for some seconds and then it drops). Then I checked the fuel pump resistance and it gives only 2.2 Ohms. In the service manual says 1.9 Ohms so should be ok. What else should I check?
Injector and valve clearance?

Thank you very much 

[CROSSBOLT]

You have done extremely well on checking for possible causes!
Yes, on valve clearance as well as a compression test.
There may be some blockage in the injector which can be flushed out. Has this machine been sitting unused with ethanol gas in it?

[Faber32]

Thank you very much Karl 
Scooter due to quarantine has not been used so much this year, but recently it has been used. My only doubts are:

- could the battery despite the good voltage not be able to supply enough amperes for starting? Because I have no trouble codes nor engine light. The only light I saw was the red one of the battery after some cranking.

- if it's injector clogging should I have trouble codes?

- in the manual says that if it cranks but won't start could be the pinion of the starter motor. Could it be? 

Thanks again really

[CROSSBOLT]

Thank you very much Karl 
Scooter due to quarantine has not been used so much this year, but recently it has been used. My only doubts are:

- could the battery despite the good voltage not be able to supply enough amperes for starting? Because I have no trouble codes nor engine light. The only light I saw was the red one of the battery after some cranking.

- if it's injector clogging should I have trouble codes?

- in the manual says that if it cranks but won't start could be the pinion of the starter motor. Could it be? 

Thanks again really

Battery way beyond normal expected life! Volts during cranking are excellent. Replace if all else fails.
Clogged injector will show no codes.
Starter pinion is okay if cranking sounds are normal.

There is a way to flush an injector right on the bike if that is the problem.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Everything looks good - but very hard to start?
My first thought is check the valves......hopefully it is not hard to do on your model Kymco?

Stig

[Faber32]

Thanks guys for taking the time for answering. You're amazing, really.

As soon as possible I'll check voltage to injector wires and injector resistance.

Then I'll adjust valve clearance (I do it later because it's a boring job and I'd like to exclude injector isseus first). I know how to do it. :-)

I was thinking of doing like this: remove the injector and turn ignition ON, crank and see if it sprays. If it doesn't spray I detach the fuel hose and see if fuel arrives at the injector. Is it right?

If injector sprays correctly, I'll then adjust valves.

Thanks again :-)

[Faber32]

Unfortunately I don't have a pressure gauge to check the pressure of fuel to the injector (it should be 0.3 bar). The only check I can do it's visually turning ignition on and see if fuel comes strong or not

[Faber32]

Problem solved guys. I found an old spark plug and I put it on. It started. Now I know that even if you put to ground the spark and it sparks, it's not certain that it's enough to start the engine. I underestimated one fundamental aspect. Thanks again and good luck 

[CROSSBOLT]

Problem solved guys. I found an old spark plug and I put it on. It started. Now I know that even if you put to ground the spark and it sparks, it's not certain that it's enough to start the engine. I underestimated one fundamental aspect. Thanks again and good luck 

Excellent! Compression does increase the difficulty in spark if I remember correctly. Meaning a weak spark at one atmosphere (~14 psia) may be no spark at 200 psia.

[Faber32]

Thanks for the info. It's not enough a "visual" inspection, always better trying a new spark plug probably.

Good road 

[Faber32]

Hi everyone. Today I adjusted the valve clearance. But I noticed that turning the engine manually (clockwise and I don't know if it's correct but I think so because I have the flywheel on the exhaust side) it made a bad noise like a coffee grinder. Two years ago I didn't remember making this noise. Is the engine gone?

Second question:

When positioning the flywheel the manual says to align the "T" mark on the flywheel with the mark on the crankcase cover. I don't understand well where I should see a "T". I only see two vertical marks on the flywheel. Anyway, I put the cover mark exactly in the middle of the two flywheel marks. But on the manual the picture is different (the cover mark is aligned with the right flywheel one). Do you think I did wrong and I have to do all the job again? See picture.
Thank you for help

[scooterfan]

Hi everyone. Today I adjusted the valve clearance. But I noticed that turning the engine manually (clockwise and I don't know if it's correct but I think so because I have the flywheel on the exhaust side) it made a bad noise like a coffee grinder. Two years ago I didn't remember making this noise. Is the engine gone?

Second question:

When positioning the flywheel the manual says to align the "T" mark on the flywheel with the mark on the crankcase cover. I don't understand well where I should see a "T". I only see two vertical marks on the flywheel. Anyway, I put the cover mark exactly in the middle of the two flywheel marks. But on the manual the picture is different (the cover mark is aligned with the right flywheel one). Do you think I did wrong and I have to do all the job again? See picture.
Thank you for help

Turning the engine clockwise from the flywheel means you have turned the engine “clockwise”.

I have no knowledge about your scooter models but there is another way to make sure the camshaft is at the correct position when you do valve clearance settings on a two valve engine.
When the camshaft is at the correct position (piston at TDC) - both camshaft lobes will be facing towards the rear end (back wheel) of the scooter.
With the camshaft lobes in this position, the timing marks (according to the service manual) should also line up correctly.
So when the cam lobes are facing backwards on your engine and tou cant see the timing marks, just turn the flywheel very slightly untill the timing marks are lining up correctly. At this point you can do both valve clearance adjustments.

I assume you did not hear the strange engine noise just before you did the adjustments ?
If not, I think there is a possibility that the adjustments have been done incorrectly - and the piston might be hitting the valves when the engine is swinging.
Hopefully this is not the case - otherwise you might have bigger problems.

[Faber32]

Thank you for your reply

The noise was there the first moment I turned the engine, before adjusting valves. I did this job because it didn't start and I wanted to exclude valve clearance as a reason for that.

Yes, there's another way to tell the right position. There are two holes on the camshaft that must be aligned with the engine head surface, but it's really difficult to tell since you don't have the right visual angle. Instead, I relied on the marks on the flywheel but I have this doubt of which one of the two on the flywheel must be aligned with the one on the crankcase cover (as in the picture). In doubt, I put it in the middle of the two but I still remain with the doubt 

[Iahawk]

I remember watching a Donyboy73 (small engine Doc) video a few years back and he gave another way of setting the piston to adjust valves. If you can find tdc just turn the engine until one of the valves is open, then the other valve will have no pressure on it and will be able to be adjusted. Repeat procedure to open other valve and adjust the non opened one.

I think this was on a lawnmower but many of our scooters are just slightly fancier lawn mower engines.

[Faber32]

Thank you  . That's interesting but I don't feel confident enough for doing such a thing, I'm a newbie in DIY.

In reality I was almost to the point except for the doubt of which of the two marks I should align. Probably someone with my model could answer that, but thanks again!