can you run a scooter without variator and clutch installed?

[Iahawk]

still working on my vibration problem with my scoot. After having cleaned and replaced a lot of things...I think I may have isolated the vibration issue to something inside the cvt... the belt,  clutch or even variator..

The question is can I run the scoot without variator and clutch? I know you can't run a lawn mower without the blade, as it acts as a heavy flywheel...but can you run a scoot this way?

Wondering if I can confirm or eliminate these components (along with belt) are causing the vibration. When running it with cvt cover off I see a lot of bouncing and slapping around of the belt and it shows evidence of hitting the cover on the outside of the belt (there are wear marks on the belt). It has been on for around 200 miles.

On a positive note I was able to strip my scoot of seat, rack, fender and tupperware (2nd pic) in 6 minutes flat...a new record for me.

[Stig / Major Tom]

 Good question.
You can run a motorcycle engine without it engaged in gear, but it was also designed for that.
Would I? No. Not until I checked with a scooter mechanic.  You'd need to rev it to look for vibration.
With as few miles as you have ridden your scooter, I wouldn't think any bushings or bearings are failing to cause a vibration.
Vibration for 200 miles with new belt...?
Dumb question (it's 4:16AM here, getting ready to ride, so excuse ...)  --- but you retested with old belt, yes?


Stig

[de dee]

still working on my vibration problem with my scoot. After having cleaned and replaced a lot of things...I think I may have isolated the vibration issue to something inside the cvt... the belt,  clutch or even variator..

The question is can I run the scoot without variator and clutch? I know you can't run a lawn mower without the blade, as it acts as a heavy flywheel...but can you run a scoot this way?

Wondering if I can confirm or eliminate these components (along with belt) are causing the vibration. When running it with cvt cover off I see a lot of bouncing and slapping around of the belt and it shows evidence of hitting the cover on the outside of the belt (there are wear marks on the belt). It has been on for around 200 miles.

On a positive note I was able to strip my scoot of seat, rack, fender and tupperware (2nd pic) in 6 minutes flat...a new record for me.
I have run my 300 D T with Variator off, just not for long times,.  if the belt is slapping a lot the belt is to long I think, I have measerd belts and found some were 6 MM longer than standard belt,.  and to narrow,. 

[Ruffus]

@Iahawk,
Yes, you CAN run your scoot without CVT and with CVT cover, belt and clutch off. Think it over, since your scoot is not depending on fresh air cooling from drive speed, its pretty safe to do that. Just make sure your hands/fingers are off crank-axle.
One more thought:
when you have your CVT and belt off, check by letting turn your rear wheel by somebody, whether your clutch bearing (this needle bearing) is making any noise. I do this bearing checks (if I cannot touch them) using an motor-stethoscope. Gives me usually a pretty good picture of any fault.
Just compare different sounds from different items.

[Iahawk]

thanks, guys. I think I'll give it a quick start up without any cvt components attached...I was concerned with potential over revving issues.

I do have my original belt (ran for 1800 miles), 2nd belt with 1200 miles on it and current belt with 200 miles. I can test different ones. I also have original clutch, rollers as well as current clutch, 2nd set of OEM rollers and my current sliders. Lots of components I can mix and match to see I can pinpoint the vibration.

here's a link to a 20 sec video I took with cvt cover off. It goes from idle to revving up, backing off a bit, revving some more and then eventually back to idle. You can really see the belt flopping around at idle...not sure if this is normal...

[Stig / Major Tom]

Love these kinds of CVT videos!

I don't know....this belt is bouncing around some - maybe they all do?

Stig

[Iahawk]

update...thank you, Ruffus, for confirming I can run scoot without cvt components. Fired scoot up and there was NO difference in the vibration levels from running it with and without cvt components.

So that tells me the vibration has nothing to do with clutch, belt or variator...so now it's back to carb, intake, vacuum lines...

So I said the heck with it and I'm getting ready to hop on my little Ninja and go out for a long ride on a beautiful Sunday morning! Sunny and 78 or 79 with a pretty good breeze blowing.

[john grinsel]

How about balance of wheels?

[scooterfan]

At what stage do you actually feel the vibration ?
During acceleration, when you turn down the throttle, continiously during a ride, and only when the scooter is moving ?

I had a look at the video - the belt on my scoot also slaps a bit when I close the throttle, but I dont think it slaps as much like the belt on your scooter.
Which makes me wonder - do this belt on the scooter bends easier than the other belts in your posession ? Is this belt not “softer” or thinner than the other belts ?

Another thought - are you sure the clutch pads are clean ? I could be wrong but while the belt seem to be slapping a bit too much I think there is a possibility that this could have an effect on the normal behaviour of the big spring on the clutch - the pully might be “opening” and “closing” because the belt might be “grabing” and “releasing” while the belt is slapping.

[wymple]

My steady speed air compressor belt flops more than that.

[Iahawk]

How about balance of wheels?

I should have been more clear...my vibration issues are at idle when scoot is stationary. It vibrates what I would consider excessively and definitely more than it has in previous years. The grips are buzzing, the front plastics are resonating, rear fender is vibrating, rear springs are even slightly blurry looking as they are buzzing! Feels like an old Harley.

At what stage do you actually feel the vibration ?
Another thought - are you sure the clutch pads are clean ?

At speed everything feels fine, the problem is sitting still at idle. Yes, clutch pads are clean, bell is clean, everything is is great shape in the cvt. My experiment today eliminated the cvt components as a cause as the bike felt exactly the same when running without variator, belt and clutch as it did running with them installed.

I have removed and completely cleaned carb twice (recleaned pilot jet today, too), replaced intake O ring, replaced about half the vacuum lines, plug and air filter. I've looked for any vacuum or intake leaks and can't find any (feeling, looking, also sprayed all connections with starting fluid and propane to see if there's any change in idle..none)

I was hoping I could isolate the problem to the cvt but I can now rule the cvt out as a cause. It's fine to ride the scoot, it just has a terrible vibration at idle.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

[scooterfan]

.........my vibration issues are at idle when scoot is stationary.

At speed everything feels fine, the problem is sitting still at idle........

When the scooter is off the center stand, the wheels are on the ground and you are sitting on the scooter - do you still feel a vibration ?

Or

Does the vibration only occur while the scooter is on the center stand and the wheels are airborne ?
If so, I think the steering column or engine mounts might be loose.

[JJJoseph]

Stop messing with it!  It's a new machine, and clearly from the video there's nothing wrong with it.  Put it back together (carefully) and just enjoy it.

[Iahawk]

When the scooter is off the center stand, the wheels are on the ground and you are sitting on the scooter - do you still feel a vibration ?

Or

Does the vibration only occur while the scooter is on the center stand and the wheels are airborne ?
If so, I think the steering column or engine mounts might be loose.

the vibration occurs both on and off the center stand. I have looked at engine mounts, etc. and found nothing out of the ordinary.

Stop messing with it!  It's a new machine, and clearly from the video there's nothing wrong with it.  Put it back together (carefully) and just enjoy it.

not new..it is 11 years old..and you're right, there's nothing wrong with the cvt components, I've eliminated them as the source of the vibration.
So why do I keep messing with it? Because it p*sses me off! I like to keep my stuff very nice and in excellent working order and this scoot, with it's annoying vibration, frankly just p*sses me off. It is a simple air cooled scooter that shouldn't be causing me this grief. I want to love riding it but with the vibration it is irritating to ride..my motorcycle has zero vibration...granted, those are apples and oranges...but, still...

I also love tinkering with stuff...so my search for a solution continues!

[Ruffus]

@hawk,
only a thought. Could there something be loose in your forced air system? Beginning with those fan at rotors side, then all the air fairing, muffler side, until it touches somewhere ...and is culminating on your body fairing.