Ethanol fuel and modern scooters & bikes

[Stig / Major Tom]

I've never worried about Ethanol free gas because it is not available in my area - so since 2013  I've never used it in a Kymco, Honda, Suzuki, Piaggio scooters - or Yamaha & Honda motorcycles.
Never a problem - all 6 vehicles were EFI. None were garage queens and all were ridden regularly and in all 4 seasons of Ohio weather.
I never use additives because I use only Top Tier pumps at gas stations - and most of the time it is SHELL Nitro premium.

BTW - never used ethanol free gas or additives  in my lawnmowers which can sit, unused, for months.  Start right up every spring.

I imagine how many new owners are freaking when they read something in his manual which seems to state he must use a fuel which is simply not available in his area. DID the dealer just sell him a grenade - or maybe.... he can relax and use what all the other local riders are using.

I've no idea what the boat dock at the reservoir is selling - but I don't see a line of helmeted guys with gas cans or HD's down there, either.

I wonder, is it time for some new thinking on the use of ethanol fuel .....and modern vehicles?
Stig

[Kansas kymco]

As far as locations there are several web sites that can tell you where ethanol free fuel is located. One is ( pure-gas.org) then type in Ohio  or other sites  ethenol free gas near me search engine. 

If you would like to read more on the subject google (why ethanol is bad for small engines).

Without rehashing past arguments, Ethenol is a hygroscopic fuel ( tendency to absorb water )  ethanol can absorb 50x more water then gasoline.

Diesel is a hygroscopic fuel as well and uses a in line water separator to remove it . In modern Diesel motors the high pressure pump uses 30,000 psi to  atomize the fuel into a fine mist. If water is injected under that pressure can  be catastrophic for the engine.

The AMA (America motorcycle association ) has written several articles on the subject. 

The information is out there if you choose to read it.

One thing from the past I will reiterate, if you use the fuel without it sitting around you should have no issues. I use Ethanol fuel in my truck so not biased against it. Just stating why it might not be the best option for equipment that goes unused for long periods of time.

[Viper254]

The ethanol in fuel isn't really a problem unless you're one of those people who leaves a car/bike standing for months on end, then it can go a bit iffy in the tank.

[Kansas kymco]

The ethanol in fuel isn't really a problem unless you're one of those people who leaves a car/bike standing for months on end, then it can go a bit iffy in the tank.

I've had carburetor problems in as little as 60 days on a Onan generator. Heat and humidity play a role as well. I have bought several Kymco scooters that wouldn't run because of carburetor issue,  to my advantage I might add. The first purchase was two Kymco Xiciting 500's that were stored in a storage unit .  The temperature  in those metal storage units can get very hot of a summer time. If you scan the Craigslist ad's there are lots of scooters with the following by line,  (It was running last year when I parked it and it won't start this year).

Fuel Injection has been a blessing for preventing a lot of issues from occurring as well.  Nothing wrong with carburetors just can be a little more finicky.

[CROSSBOLT]

Used regularly seems to work. My preference is non-ethanol for technical and political reasons. Tech reasons are the mower carbs here that have choked up from winter storage with no Sta-bil (my fault). Another tech reason is mileage is better with non-ethanol. Political reasons center around invalid ecological driven pressure to have the stuff in the first place. Today's corn farmers are now dependent on this inefficient blend.

[scooterfan]

…….My preference is non-ethanol for technical and political reasons. ……..

Interesting thread and interesting comments.
As an ex farmer many moons ago I have lots of simpathy with farmers in general.  Right or wrong, I think the ethanol issue goes much deeper than political reasons - it’s also about creating many jobs in the farming supplying chain, creating jobs in the processing grain, and earning much needed taxes for any given State or country.
In short - I think the ethanol industry surely have negative consequinces, but the positive results on the economy should never be under-estimated.

[CROSSBOLT]

Interesting thread and interesting comments.
As an ex farmer many moons ago I have lots of simpathy with farmers in general.  Right or wrong, I think the ethanol issue goes much deeper than political reasons - it’s also about creating many jobs in the farming supplying chain, creating jobs in the processing grain, and earning much needed taxes for any given State or country.
In short - I think the ethanol industry surely have negative consequinces, but the positive results on the economy should never be under-estimated.

Yes, but ethanol gasoline SUX! I might be more in favor of turning organic garbage into fuel than fresh grown corn.

[john grinsel]

cheapest reg works for me----secret is ride a lot and often

[stuo]

I have read that the ethanol in gasoline will eventually destroy the rubber in older fuel systems that were made pre-ethanol. Unfortunately, here in CA we are stuck with ethanol fuel, which is now $4.25/gallon.

[pa-outdoorsman]

I don't think anyone is making the case that running some ethanol blend gas through your scooter is disastrous. But is it ideal? I'd say no. Ethanol is not great for your engine, but also not great for fuel lines and other rubber/plastic components.

Again, I don't doubt many of you have been running E10 in your scoots for years with no issues. But since ethanol-free gas is readily available in my town, and the additional cost per fill up is literally measured in cents, not dollars, I simply prefer to run the ethanol free fuel. I am sure I'll eventually find myself in need of a fill-up at a station that does not offer ethanol-free gas, and at that point, I am equally sure I can put E10 in my tank and burn it just fine.

[klaviator]

cheapest reg works for me----secret is ride a lot and often

Same for me.  Ethanol fuel shouldn't hurt any modern scooter engines as long as they don't sit too long.  Let a scooter with a carb sit for more than a few weeks and you may have problems. 

[Stig / Major Tom]

As far as locations there are several web sites that can tell you where ethanol free fuel is located. One is ( pure-gas.org) then type in Ohio  or other sites  ethenol free gas near me search engine. 

There is not a station with ethanol free gas within 30 miles of my scooter. I think I can buy it by the cans from some hardware stores. Gas from a can made by ??, or pumped from a SHELL station?
 I choose SHELL....Sunoco, Valero, BP, Amoco, etc. Always Top Tier.
Stig

[Kansas kymco]

There is not a station with ethanol free gas within 30 miles of my scooter. I think I can buy it by the cans from some hardware stores. Gas from a can made by ??, or pumped from a SHELL station?
 I choose SHELL....Sunoco, Valero, BP, Amoco, etc. Always Top Tier.
Stig

Stig,it's non-use of the scooter  that causes problems .  You use yours year round so you shouldn't have a issue.  I first used ethanol in my El Camino back in the late 70's  and actually ethanol is a good solvent for keeping the fuel ststem clean. The trouble back then was, it was a good solvent  dissolving parts that were not compatible.  Modern equipment is made to handle 10% blends. Higher  concentrations can cause issues. 

My mixture of fuel and stabilizer will keep for 2 years.  If you own a lot of scooters/motorcycles longevity of fuel is a concern. They actually make a product to counter the effects of ethenol in fuel and sell it at scooter/motorcycle  shops.

[Kansas kymco]

I did notice at a Holiday gas station in Minneapolis they sold 110 octane racing fuel for 7.99 a gallon.  With a fuel injected engine it could advance timing to the moon without pre ignition knock.

[klaviator]

Non ethanol fuel is easy to find near me, even the Wally World gas station sells it.  Its also a lot more expensive than gas with ethanol.  I can't see any justification for using ethanol free.  Even my 19 year old lawnmower hasn't had any problems using ethanol gas.