Agility 125 16+ Engine Dies Temporarily

[xuraax]

Hi,

This issue has already been mentioned by me in another thread in this subgroup but I decided to create a new thread with a more focused title.

My 2 year old and still under warranty bike has been suffering from the following condition.

 Whilst riding along for at least half an hour the bike suddenly dies down on me. No engine fault appears on the dash. Restarting the bike is futile. There is not even a hint of a burn. However after about 5 mins or so the bike starts again and continues functioning without even a hint of a miss.

Over the past 2 years this fault occurred just 3 time. The period in between occurrences is roughly about 7 months. However after the third fail the problem appeared again today ( 2 weeks since the last fail) whilst on my way to the dealer to have this checked. This makes it the 4th fail.

To my dismay the dealer could not trace the fault. Whilst I agree this is not an easy fault to diagnose, in my opinion he gave up to fast.

Some 6 weeks ago I replaced the battery so this cannot be a suspect. Also there is no problem with the gas tank vent.  According to the dealer technician this bike does not have a fuel shutoff valve.

The main reason why this issue is worrying me is that the third incident occurred whilst riding at around 60km/hour on the outside lane and therefore this fault could have had severe repercussions.

From the other thread it appears that at least one other guy has faced this issue.

I am wondering if there are other owners who have faced this problem and, ideally if they have found the root cause of it.

Also since it would seem that I will have to get involved in diagnosing this fault does anybody know if there is a workshop manual one can download for this bike?
Can somebody recommend a contact email at Kymco Headquarters with whom I can broach the subject?

Thanks in advance for any advice I can get.

joe

[Ruffus]

@xuraax, yes saw ...
https://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=31322.0
..and hoped you would get this issue sorted out by your dealership.
There has to be a reason for this behavior and eventually will be found.
Do you have a kill switch right hand?
If yes, is it possible you hit this switch assambly with something, scratches/signs there?

Take the met - in box out and try (motor running) WITH wearing gloves and rubbergloves over them, to bend/pull gently your ignition cable which leads from your ignition coil towards sparkplug.
Maybe some reaction

Try with idling motor to bend all other cables/ fuel lines, etc. Maybe reaction.
Pull on all ground cables (green).
Bend your air-intake pipe.

As a further measure  I would (if the dealer cannot find the failure for month)
Install a external fuel pump temporarely and see how it does. Need not to be a posh one, off the rack from Amaxon or Ebai. With this I would see (clear fuel hose) whether bubbles or dirt is delivered from my gas tank.
If there would be an ECU fault, the tech should see a failure code in diagnostics.

If possible give us a feedback.

[Like50]

Is there a possibility, that there is in a gas tank some garpage, that every now and then stops the fuel moving. Venting you said is ok.

[CROSSBOLT]

Some 6 weeks ago I replaced the battery so this cannot be a suspect. Also there is no problem with the gas tank vent.  According to the dealer technician this bike does not have a fuel shutoff valve.

Two different things. He is correct. It does not have a fuel shut-off valve. It is fuel injected so there is a pump to make it run. It DOES have a fuel tank VENT VALVE. AND THEY STICK SHUT quite often. To prove this one needs to open the gas tank cap quickly when the engine falters. If it either picks up and runs or starts easily upon opening the cap, the vent valve is the problem. I would think by now these techs would realize this....

[Ruffus]

Kks guess is good too, I would just drill a small hole in my gas cap (2mm) which is easily to be closed if its not the case.

[xuraax]

Thank you all for your suggestions.

Here are my comments in no particular order:

1. Vent Blocking.  The dealer did tell me that indeed there is a vent but it is not in the cap. In any case the last time this problem happened I opened up the fuel cap so even if the actual vent was blocked my action would have let air in anyway. The motor still did not start after this and only started about 5 minutes later.
2. Garbage in Fuel tank. Following issues with another bike due to debris I have now been always filling up from fuel stations with new installations to minimise the possibility. In any case the only thing consistent with my issue is that this problem occurs rarely and the bike ALWAYS restarted without a hick up after about 5 minutes.
3.Kill switch and bad cabling. This bike has no kill switch and in order for me to check for a cabling fault or indeed to fit in a new fuel pump I would need to remove all the plastic parts which for me will be a last resort especially without a workshop manual.

The manner in which this fault is coming out and the way it disappears again leads me to conclude that it is not a fuel issue but an electrical one possibly due to overheating of some part which disappears after the part cools down.

I have had issues like this in the past with both ignition plugs and/or ignition coils on other vehicles but unlike my current problem failure was quite frequent and inside 10 minutes of starting not every 6 to 7 months as in this case.

In any case, I thank you all for showing interest in my problem.

Regards

joe

[scooterfan]

I am not familiar with Agility 125 16+’s but if your Agilityhas a DC CDI, chances are more than good that the CDI on your scoot is on it’s way out.
My ex- Agility 125 had a DC CDI and over time I experienced similar problems twice - in both cases the problems were solved by i stalling new CDI’s.

[Iahawk]

Scooterfan - just sent you a PM

[CROSSBOLT]

I am not familiar with Agility 125 16+’s but if your Agilityhas a DC CDI, chances are more than good that the CDI on your scoot is on it’s way out.
My ex- Agility 125 had a DC CDI and over time I experienced similar problems twice - in both cases the problems were solved by i stalling new CDI’s.

EFI and the ignition function is in the ECU.
Comment on Item #1. The opening of the gas cap rules out the stuck vent valve. The dealer is correct: these bikes DO NOT have vented gas caps. That's why they have vent valves. First dealer I have heard about that realizes this.

[aschrauth]

I am not familiar with Agility 125 16+’s but if your Agilityhas a DC CDI, chances are more than good that the CDI on your scoot is on it’s way out.
My ex- Agility 125 had a DC CDI and over time I experienced similar problems twice - in both cases the problems were solved by i stalling new CDI’s.

I to as well had this issue. Installing a new CDI helped for me too. For some reason a common trend I have seen in these scooters is to go through a stock CDI

[xuraax]

I to as well had this issue. Installing a new CDI helped for me too. For some reason a common trend I have seen in these scooters is to go through a stock CDI

The 16+ has an ECU which sends a time controlled pulse to a step up coil to generate a spark. Is your CDI equivalent to this coil or is it one of those installed on pre-EFI bikes? I.e. no fuel injection?

[scooterfan]

EFI and the ignition function is in the ECU.

In that case I would go for a new ECU if the price of a new ECU is not higher than labor costs + the price of an EC U  at a Kymco agency.

But of caurse - my guess is just a gamble …

[xuraax]

In that case I would go for a new ECU if the price of a new ECU is not higher than labor costs + the price of an EC U  at a Kymco agency.

But of caurse - my guess is just a gamble …

Don't know how a Kymco ECU costs but the one for my other bike costs above $300.

Seems to me quite an expensive gamble.