Oil change and other random posts unrelated to the conversation thread

[rjs987]

Just reading and re-reading up on performing the first 600 mile oil/filter change on my Kymco AK 550. I looked in the owner manual and in the service manual. Same information found in both for this job. Basic and simple and straight forward... except for one little niggly detail. I see the torque values for the filter and also for the drain plugs, there are 2.


And then there is also a torque value for the magnetic screw!? Where is that? No mention of removing a magnetic screw in either description of the process to replace the oil yet there is that torque value specified for it. So I dug a little further. I figured the parts breakout might just clue me in to where this magnetic screw might be. I was right. Plain as day on the parts breakout and listing for the left transmission casing. Hmmm, sort of miss-named since everywhere else in the service manual it's called the "Mission case" but I suppose they were sort of abbreviating there, sort of. It's actually the outer clutch case. But anyway, on the bottom of said outer clutch case is shown where a magnetic screw is located. Shown as part number 11205-PSA6-E00. I know that a magnetic screw is used to pick up or catch metal bits that might be floating around in the oil. So it makes sense that it should be cleaned off once in a while. But why no mention of removing it to clean it and then replacing it... other than this mention of a torque value. There is no mention in the owner manual nor in the service manual where to find it and no instruction to remove it for cleaning. Usually the oil drain plug has a magnet plug on it to do that job but on this bike that would put the magnetic plug inside the oil screens where it would not be able to do anything since any metal bits would be floating around in the oil outside of those screens.


I wonder if any of you who do your own oil changes on the AK 550 have thought to take out the magnetic screw, clean it off, and put it back. The torque value is relatively high compared to that of the drain plugs, 28 N-m compared to 9 N-m. Debating if it is even needed to be cleaned for every oil change. I would think the first one or two oil changes would be more important to have it cleaned off than subsequent oil changes. Or is that even needed since there is no mention of doing so anywhere... other than that entry of a torque value for it. Maybe, just maybe, draining the oil will provide enough flow to wash it off if there is any accumulation on it. Yeah, right.


Anyway, on with the oil and filter change.

[Ruffus]

@rjs, don't have an AK 55O (though would like to) but saw a lot of messed oil-plug threads.
Either do tightening by hand with a spanner, if you do have some experience, or use a 1/4 inch torque-wrench SOLELY.
A 1/2 inch wrench does not not have this fine tuning you need for alu threads.

[rjs987]

I do have a lot of experience changing oil in bikes. Have been doing it myself for many years and in my cars many years before that.

[Stig / Major Tom]

@rjs, don't have an AK 55O (though would like to) but saw a lot of messed oil-plug threads.
Either do tightening by hand with a spanner, if you do have some experience, or use a 1/4 inch torque-wrench SOLELY.
A 1/2 inch wrench does not not have this fine tuning you need for alu threads.

Yep, I never use a torque wrench for small fasteners!
"snug" and quit!
(we had a LIKE200i owner strip an exhaust stud - waiting for that "click")
Stig

[jermwars]

Just reading and re-reading up on performing the first 600 mile oil/filter change on my Kymco AK 550. I looked in the owner manual and in the service manual. Same information found in both for this job. Basic and simple and straight forward... except for one little niggly detail. I see the torque values for the filter and also for the drain plugs, there are 2.


And then there is also a torque value for the magnetic screw!? Where is that? No mention of removing a magnetic screw in either description of the process to replace the oil yet there is that torque value specified for it. So I dug a little further. I figured the parts breakout might just clue me in to where this magnetic screw might be. I was right. Plain as day on the parts breakout and listing for the left transmission casing. Hmmm, sort of miss-named since everywhere else in the service manual it's called the "Mission case" but I suppose they were sort of abbreviating there, sort of. It's actually the outer clutch case. But anyway, on the bottom of said outer clutch case is shown where a magnetic screw is located. Shown as part number 11205-PSA6-E00. I know that a magnetic screw is used to pick up or catch metal bits that might be floating around in the oil. So it makes sense that it should be cleaned off once in a while. But why no mention of removing it to clean it and then replacing it... other than this mention of a torque value. There is no mention in the owner manual nor in the service manual where to find it and no instruction to remove it for cleaning. Usually the oil drain plug has a magnet plug on it to do that job but on this bike that would put the magnetic plug inside the oil screens where it would not be able to do anything since any metal bits would be floating around in the oil outside of those screens.


I wonder if any of you who do your own oil changes on the AK 550 have thought to take out the magnetic screw, clean it off, and put it back. The torque value is relatively high compared to that of the drain plugs, 28 N-m compared to 9 N-m. Debating if it is even needed to be cleaned for every oil change. I would think the first one or two oil changes would be more important to have it cleaned off than subsequent oil changes. Or is that even needed since there is no mention of doing so anywhere... other than that entry of a torque value for it. Maybe, just maybe, draining the oil will provide enough flow to wash it off if there is any accumulation on it. Yeah, right.


Anyway, on with the oil and filter change.

Thank you again!!! I saw that torque spec and assumed thats what it was but had no idea where it was...good point about it probably being most necessary to clean after initial wear of breaking in. I wonder if the whiz-kids that serviced mine for the first service cleaned it. Hugely doubtful. I didnt it clean it either when i did the 3000 mile change.

Now im thinking i probably should

[rjs987]

...
Stig

Sent you a PM asking to have this thread moved to the Technical/How to sub forum please. It wouldn't let me delete right after I started it in the wrong sub forum. 

[rjs987]

The first maintenance on the schedule is done now. The only thing on this first maintenance interval is the oil and filter change.

I included a few pictures in this thread showing the 2 drain bolts (black bolts) and also pointing to that magnetic screw in the center of the bottom Clutch/mission case. The magnetic screw is the only one with a washer on it that you can easily see when looking at it. Those 2 drain bolts hold in oil screens that need to be checked and/or cleaned as needed. About the same amount of oil drains out of each of those 2 drains. Pulled out the screens, which actually came out with the drain bolts so that was easy. Not much metal bits were on either one. The clutch screen did have one sliver of metal shaving on it. I was kind of expecting a little more than that but was pleased there wasn't any more. Used an old tooth brush to brush off the screens and bolts and put those back after all the oil was drained out and the seating surfaces were cleaned off. Torqued to 9 N-m (90 kgf-cm as it is on my torque wrench). Then on to the filter.


True to form the factory wrenches on that oil filter with a machine that seems to WAY over torque those filters on there. I've watched a few videos showing how to replace the oil filter without removing any panels so proceeded to approach it that way. There is a bottom cover that has a section that simply extends back under the filter that flexes enough to reach in with some filter wrenches or pliers to get it off and on. That bottom panel does protect the filter and front of the engine from road trash that may get thrown up. The SM says to remove that bottom cover. But to do that the lower leg shields have to be removed on each side to get to the 2 bolts on each side of the bottom panel to remove it. Because the filter was torqued on soooo tight I was unable to get a good enough grip with my oil filter pliers to even start to turn it so I had to change my approach a little. I found a way to just partially drop that bottom panel enough to get a good grip with the pliers. I pulled out the plastic rivets at the front of the bottom panel and up the right side of the radiator cover. Then I removed the 3 screws through the right foot board into the right lower leg shield so that would flex out just enough to get to those 2 bolts for the bottom panel. After those were out the right side of the bottom panel could simply drop down and give me a much clearer access to the filter. It finally did come off, after deforming the filter cartridge a lot. But that was for the old filter that was coming off so I'm never concerned about what condition that is in since it will be thrown away. Put the new filter on and followed the instructions on the side of the filter canister: after contact turn another 7/8 to tighten. My filter pliers do tend to put some light scratches on the filter can but scuffing the paint is really not an issue. Putting on is easier than taking off the very first time so no damage to the filter can other than some scratches.


The AK 550 has rubber O-rings for the oil drain bolt seals. The OEM filter is the customary flat rubber washer. Just checked and cleaned those and put back on this time. I did not pull the magnetic screw this time but still debating about when to do that. I would expect it should be done at some point.


Almost forgot to mention... something I learned with my CTX1300 where the exhaust pipe pass close enough to the oil filter to get significant oil spilled on them during the filter change. On that bike I wrapped aluminum foil around the pipes to keep them clean and that worked really great. For the AK when pulling off the filter oil spills onto the rear part of the bottom panel and drains off so to attempt to prevent oil getting onto the plastic I wrapped the rear part of the bottom panel with aluminum foil. It did work well, for the most part. I wasn't as careful putting the foil on and ended up with a hole on one corner of the foil that allowed some oil to seep through to the plastic. I'll be more careful next time. But it was mostly clean when I pulled the foil off and threw it away.


I have a pliers type oil filter wrench that fits 3 sizes. The Burgman 650 filters were the smallest size, this AK 550 is the middle size. I'm debating if there would be enough space to get past the bottom panel without dropping it to use a filter canister end wrench. I may order one anyway and try it next time.


Filled with oil and ran the engine before checking. The AK only takes 2.7 L for an oil and filter change. Less than the Burgman or my former bikes. It's really nice having a real dip stick to check the oil level. I did have to put in a little more to bring the oil level to mid point on the dip stick (or oil scale as Kymco calls it).


Now to concentrate on adding another 2400 miles before the next service. The dash display has an oil and CVT belt mileage counter along with the odometer and trip meters. I reset the oil counter. Makes it easy to see how far I've gone since the last oil change.

[rjs987]

A few more pictures that go with my previous post.

[rjs987]

I was just re-reading this thread and noted that I didn't mention what oil I used. I believe anyone can use what oil they want but shouldn't be surprised about just a few important details to consider.
Because the AK 550, and almost all the other bikes I've owned, has a wet clutch there is a primary detail to consider. A wet clutch simply means that the clutch sits in a bath of oil, the same reserve of oil that is for the engine, thus it is wet and not dry like on so many smaller scooters and also certain other bikes. The specification become important because of this. I always verify the oil I use is specified for JASO MA/MA2. This spec is designed just for bikes/scooters with a wet clutch. No using an oil that is so specified or the equivalent will result in eventual issues with the clutch slipping. When that first starts to happen the resolution might possibly be as simple as replacing the oil with something that is designed for wet clutches. If that doesn't work or if the symptoms have been going on for a while the only resolution will be to rebuild the clutch replacing the clutch pads.


Another designation on many oil jugs in the USA is the service API circle. I always look to see if the bottom outer ring of this circle is BLANK. Not all oil jugs have this circle so I go more by what I stated above. If the circle is there it will sometimes be shown to state "Resource Conserving" or "Energy Conserving" in that bottom outer circle. If it does say that I know the JASO spec will also be missing since those oils have special additives that will trash the clutch pads eventually. Sometimes sooner than at other times.


I have used Rotella T6 5W-40 full synthetic in all my bikes since before it was called T6 and simply called Rotella T (back in 2003). Since I ride in some really cold temps during the cold season and also since I ride in temps that sometimes gets higher than 100F I looked at the chart of suggested oil viscosity in the service manual for the right oil to use for those conditions. I usually only ride enough miles to change the oil once per year so I want an oil that is best at both extremes. The Kymco AK 550 service manual suggests either a 10W-40 or 5W-50 for riding at both extremes. I think 5W-40 fits in there just perfectly. I have had no oil related problems on any of my bikes doing this. I know that other riders also don't have oil related problems using whatever they use, usually. So take this all with the understanding that this is my opinion.


In my AK 550 I am using Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 full synthetic oil.

[jermwars]

Im about to do yet another oil change...i think this will be 4 and the third filter change in under 5 months
Still haven't changed out the coolant or the brakes but i suppose i probably should. Just seems excessive...dont you agree?

REALLY digging that little wrench kit you turned me on to BTY...its the coolest

[rjs987]

Im about to do yet another oil change...i think this will be 4 and the third filter change in under 5 months
Still haven't changed out the coolant or the brakes but i suppose i probably should. Just seems excessive...dont you agree?

REALLY digging that little wrench kit you turned me on to BTY...its the coolest

Short answer: no
medium answer: I've known many bikes with almost the very same service intervals as the AK 550. Most of the bikes I've owned are some of those.


You do know that ONLY the second and third oil changes are at 3000 mile intervals, then it goes to 6000 mile intervals every time after that. This is normal.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Oil specifics would be clearly listed in the owner's manual, and most manuals request brake fluid renewals at least 24 mos apart.
I often use Shell  Rotella in my $3K Kymco, but I change it at @800 mile intervals.

Stig

[jermwars]

Short answer: no
medium answer: I've known many bikes with almost the very same service intervals as the AK 550. Most of the bikes I've owned are some of those.


You do know that ONLY the second and third oil changes are at 3000 mile intervals, then it goes to 6000 mile intervals every time after that. This is normal.

Ya. I could skip the oil change this time except i didnt change the oil filter last time and i cant change it this time w/o changing the oil. No biggie.

I mostly just thought changing the coolant and brake fluid already seemed excessively proactive. Especially the brake fluid. Just not sure how either could degrade in such a short amount of time regardless of miles.

Glad you were able to get some action on the hand warmer issue...Pretty sure mine has the same problem

[rjs987]

Ya. I could skip the oil change this time except i didnt change the oil filter last time and i cant change it this time w/o changing the oil. No biggie.

I mostly just thought changing the coolant and brake fluid already seemed excessively proactive. Especially the brake fluid. Just not sure how either could degrade in such a short amount of time regardless of miles.

Glad you were able to get some action on the hand warmer issue...Pretty sure mine has the same problem

Thanks!


The issue with coolant and brake fluid is that it can go bad or degrade with time regardless of miles. Moisture gets into those systems as well to further degrade the fluids. For those I would go with the "Months" limits rather than miles... depending how many miles you ride per year. I usually get in an average of around 7500 miles per year so that scheduling is close enough for me.

[jermwars]

Thanks!


The issue with coolant and brake fluid is that it can go bad or degrade with time regardless of miles. Moisture gets into those systems as well to further degrade the fluids. For those I would go with the "Months" limits rather than miles... depending how many miles you ride per year. I usually get in an average of around 7500 miles per year so that scheduling is close enough for me.

GOOD!! Because that was my thinking exactly. I decided 6 months (10k miles ish) is safely proactive but not a waste of time and money. Even if its not much of either. The scheduled coolant change service for my Yamaha Majesty is 3 years and i just cant imagine the physics of the fluid or the materials in the system are entirely dissimilar ...I might feel different if the bike ever sat for more than 12 hours without being used.

While ive got you...not sure if i ever told you that im REALLY impressed with the CVT tool set we talked about. Excellent machining and design. Seems like it will make the job a breeze. I wonder if it would be cheap enough to ship around to make it worth loaning out when you're ready. Seems a waste sitting in my closet most of the year