uh-oh...lots of metal in the engine oil...

[Iahawk]

well, I've been posting since the Spring about how my 2010 People S200 vibrates when running...way more than it used to.

I decided to change the oil this afternoon. It sounded a little funny while while idling and ran even a little rougher than usual. I thought I even heard some clunking..

It has been 577 miles and 11 months since the last oil change (with Rotella 15W-40 conventional). The oil has always been full.

The oil in my drain pan looked odd...and as I swirled it around I thought I saw metal flakes in the bottom so I ran my magnetic pick up tool through it. Yep, lots of little metal things stuck to the magnet.

Son of a b*tch.  I bought the scooter with 1863 miles on it just over 6 years ago. I have maintained it very well since then. The 577 miles I put on it are the most I've put on in a single year (put most miles on my motorcycle).

Attached are close up pics of the oil and the magnetic tool. The sad thing is the scoot is in basically showroom condition...new everything (belt, sliders, fluids, filters, bulbs).

The odd thing is there were no metal flakes or chunks in my oil screen..it was clean.

The metal is magnetic. What do you think is destroyed in my motor?

[CROSSBOLT]

Arrgh! Will bet one of the two big ball bearings on the crank is coming apart. Based on your description and pictures I am guessing a cage failed. Teardown.

[Ruffus]

@hawk, serious but not unsolvable.
I would go with CROSSBOLT,
IF, I would be 100% sure this flakes are from this motor. Did you use it for your HONDA too? Or is there any chance from another source?

Anyway, changing crank bearings is not a huge deal. You would need a few gaskets, oilseals and bearings, which are Norm pieces.
If you can do it on your own, it's economically feasable, if done in a workshop, with cylinder removal and gaskets, not.

[Iahawk]

Ruffus, I was also questioning the oil source..but I use a 1 gallon plastic milk jug, cut in half for the Kymco oil changes. It fits in the space between rear tire and center stand. So this is the Kymco oil.

Does this all seem logical, now, with my vibration issues this year and some thoughts that it could be related to the crank? Now that it appears the bearings have gone...would this be a logical explanation for my vibration issues?

I wouldn't pay a shop to fix this. I may have just found my winter project.

Typically, if the crank bearings do go bad..does the extra metal in the oil tend to damage anything else? Just wondering if this usually requires a new crank, too? Probably no real answers until motor is opened up..

[Ruffus]

@hawk, okay if you sure about the source...
An alternative would be a motor from any other scoot too. Has to be calculated what's more reasonable to do. Or a whole scoot with a same motor. Actually I was on search for a body-wrecked piece too. First time I hear of a crankbearing fault in a well maintained Kymco.

This oil looks to me like an emulsion  (water/ oil mix), is there any chance you had coolant in your oil? From a leaky pump or else?

No, I don't think that there would be more demage than this bearing, if it's not ridden anymore.
But as you say, only a teardown would show it.
The crank should be fine, that's why bearings are installed.
The only extra tool you would need is this rotor-puller, inexpensive, available via Amaxon or similar.

[Iahawk]

the oil in the drain pan today looks normal (after sitting since yesterday). I wonder if the initial oil drain was kind of whipped up from running and draining? Looks totally normal, now.

looking on Kymco Parts Online..new crank with bearings attached sells for $145 USD. Probably easier (for me) to buy the whole part rather than trying to remove and replace bearings?  Does that make sense?

[Ruffus]

@hawk, yes makes sense to take the whole assambly. More $$ but less trouble. Don't forget new oilseals
Saves you to remove/ shrink on those bearings, which is a challenge sometimes with two hands only.

Fitting the ready crank goes with seriousely heating up the block, one half at a time.
I would say at least 10 minutes of blowing with a heat gun, high stage. Then the whole crank incl. bearings out of the FREEZER (-18°C) and you can push it at once easily into its seat. Be sure its in, until it sits, nearly not to remove without destroying bearings anymore.

And this two times.
New gasket and two big C-clamps are helpful for the second half (generator side).

[Iahawk]

thanks, Ruffus (and Crossbolt). Your directions are exactly what I'm seeing on youtube videos about replacing the crank in a GY6. Freeze the crank and heat up the engine cases for installation. Gaskets, oil seals, the crank and the 'magneto / flywheel puller' tool..avail for $12 USD on Amazon.

I'll probably wait until the dark days of Winter to start the project. It might be fun to pull the engine and bring it in the house to my basement workshop to work on it.

I'm sure I will have many more questions when I get into the project.

[Ruffus]

@hawk, since the motor has to come out anyway, pls think of constructing a motor holder. Simply out of metal pipes or construction wood. Makes life much easier.

Looks like a cradle or sawhorse with two eyelets for the motor hinges, right in front of your rear wheel and lifts and keeps the whole drive-unit, inclusive wheel and sidearm stable. It's worth to spend a few hours ahead for this tool.

[Iahawk]

Ruffus, do you have a picture of the engine holder you're suggesting? I'm all about spending a little extra time if it makes the job much easier!

[Ruffus]

@hawk, yes I will. But right now it's borrowed to a colleague in Austria and for this bl....y lockdown I can't get it back. But I will draw you a sketch wit measures and material. Do you have a welder and a flex (anglegrinder)/know one who can?

[Iahawk]

Ruffus, welding is not possible for me...you mentioned a similar structure built out of wood? That is something I can handle!
And again, thank you for helping.

[Wiz]

Would something like this work?


https://www.amazon.com/Unit-Motorcycle-Adjustable-Engine-Stand/dp/B075X3YR4Y/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=motorcycle+engine+stand&qid=1637887557&qsid=132-0645517-0500505&sr=8-2&sres=B075X3YR4Y%2CB077BF66ZR%2CB075RPGSZL%2CB01BRBKA82%2CB07JCWKN7X%2CB07KW3R134%2CB09CZCPXX7%2CB06X9CYNJF%2CB081GK4PYC%2CB07CV56C22%2CB004R900GO%2CB01AD2AY9G%2CB0796PS2SQ%2CB000CO869Q%2CB078WJM4FH%2CB08RCLW1N8%2CB002KS6FUO%2CB01NCT4IKW%2CB01M0AB7MJ%2CB078WHPXVT

[CROSSBOLT]

Would something like this work?


https://www.amazon.com/Unit-Motorcycle-Adjustable-Engine-Stand/dp/B075X3YR4Y/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=motorcycle+engine+stand&qid=1637887557&qsid=132-0645517-0500505&sr=8-2&sres=B075X3YR4Y%2CB077BF66ZR%2CB075RPGSZL%2CB01BRBKA82%2CB07JCWKN7X%2CB07KW3R134%2CB09CZCPXX7%2CB06X9CYNJF%2CB081GK4PYC%2CB07CV56C22%2CB004R900GO%2CB01AD2AY9G%2CB0796PS2SQ%2CB000CO869Q%2CB078WJM4FH%2CB08RCLW1N8%2CB002KS6FUO%2CB01NCT4IKW%2CB01M0AB7MJ%2CB078WHPXVT

Probably not on the engine/CVT configuration. That Amazon stand for traditional motorcycle engines or engine-gearbox units. These scoot units have the pivot mount on top and shock attachment to the rear off-center.

[JJJoseph]

think of constructing a motor holder. . . Makes life much easier.

The complete motor isn't that heavy or complicated.  I would do them on  the garage floor in the old days.  But now if I squat on the garage floor, I'd have to call for help to get up!  But it should be possible to do the overhaul on a sturdy wood table.