Used 2002 Kymco Bet and Win 250 - What do I need to do?

[gtexan]

Hi all,

Im new to the forum, so go easy on me please!

I just recently purchased a used 2002 Kymco Bet and Win 250 from an individual, and now am wondering what service I need to perform before I can really start riding it. 
The only service I know for sure that was completed was the first 500km engine oil/gear oil change.
It now has just under 4,000 kilometers on it

I am planning on changing the engine oil, the gear oil, the air filter, coolant, and brake fluid.  My questions:

1) Where can I find a detailed service/repair manual for this bike?  The owner's manual is extremely insufficient

2) How difficult is it to perform these basic maintenance procedures?  I have done a lot of home repair, but no auto repair.  I think working on a bike will be much easier than a car, but I don't want to mess anything up.  Are there any books you'd recommend purchasing prior to working on the scooter?

3) Other than the parts I listed, are there any other things I should be checking for?  Sparkplugs, etc?

4) The last one is a bit stupid, but I still can't really figure it out.  The scooter is "Liquid" cooled, and the book seems to indicate distilled water.  Can you use other coolants (antifreeze for example) or is distilled water recommened? 

Thanks!!

[kawzak]

Welcome. I will try to help. In the general discussion area (I think) there is a free download for a parts and repair manual, (lots of paper, over 200 pages).This was for a People 250.but I think there is also a Bet & Win .Any way same engine, the maintenance schedule says to change the oil every 1000km- so the chart says that at 4000km-change oil (.9 litre) clean the oil filter screen (underneath engine a small cap/cover), replace the gear oil (180ml) in the rear drive unit(this should also be the same rear drive unit as mine), adjust valves clearance,inspect carb, spark plug,brake system,suspension, all nuts-bolts-fasteners,brake levers,brake shoe/pad wear, You really need a manual or the information on disc to find bolt torque values, etc. as far as the coolant you should use distilled water-mixed with a quality anti-freeze for aluminum engines-or you can simply buy the pre-mixed stuff at any motorcycle shop (usually a mix of 50/50 anti-freeze/coolant to distilled water) .Doing the work is not hard but here is where the manual/or/pictures/ schematics pays off-so you do the right things.Hope this helps..and there no such thing as a stupid question.

[gtexan]

Kawzak - thank you so much for all the help.  Its nice to know there are some friendly support groups out here!

I have a few more questions, if you don't mind me asking!

1.  I noticed you said to get some coolant for aluminum engines -- I have some 50/50 coolant that I bought a while ago, but am wondering if this will work in the motorcycle as well?  How do I know if its OK for aluminum engines?  Its this stuff: http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak_longlife_5050.html

Also, I noticed that the Kymco Bet and Win 250 has one large headlight in the middle, flanked by two smaller lights on the sides.   You can see it in this photo:


When I turn on my bike, the front headlight and taillight are always on.   I don't have a way of turning them off. In the manual, there is a diagram with a switch for turning the lights on or off, but mine doesn't have that.  I can switch from normal to brights, but thats it.  Also, the "flanking" lights won't turn on.  I don't know how to get them to come on.  Is this normal?  I don't think they are turn signal lights, because as you can see, those are higher up

I read in my owner's manual that the scooter requires SAE 90 gear oil, but the closest I could find was 75 W 90.  I read on another website that this was oK, but was wondering your opinion

And lastly, I checked my brake fluid, and it looks OK, but I was under the impression that it absorbs water over time, and should be changed.  I can't find any information on flushing the brake fluid lines, so I was wondering if you happened to know hwo to do this? 

Should I purchase the service manual for the specific bike I have, or is it OK to use the People S 250 one since its so similar.  Thanks!!

[gtexan]

I thought of one more question (Im sorry!!)

When the bike engine is on, and its up on its main stand, should the rear wheel spin?  When my bike is idling, the rear wheel does not spin

[kawzak]

Hey glad to help. First the anti-freeze/coolant you talked about was Peak brand. A good brand, but you need to know how old it is and it will say on the container if its OK for aluminum engines, and if it is not pre-diluted (it will say if it is on the container, I suspect it may be because of the 50/50 that you typed as part of the web site address) if not you need to mix , do so with distilled (not mineral or drinking or tap water)-only distilled water. Easier to buy the pre-mixed stuff for motorcycles at a bike shop.My manual says the cooling system holds 1400cc +/- 20cc. total amount (1000cc/radiator +/- 20cc) and  (400cc coolant reserve tank +/- 20cc) so you will need about a quart and a half of pre-mixed coolant/distilled water. Be careful Glycol anti-freeze/coolant is posion to animals if they drink it it is very deadly. It has a sweet taste to it-don't ask how I know this. You should get or download a manual because you will need to know where to bleed the air from the system at a certain bolt/location. Also anti-freeze/coolant will ruin paint if its sets on it very long. Next Item is about the lights, on any motor cycle/scooter built for the USA -has to have lights on all the time (law since 1979/80)-so you can't turn them off. Next the (2) small lights on either side front are European blinkers only-so yours wont have any bulbs in these- Legal system makes us have the ugly add-on front blinkers at/by the handlebars.Next The gear oil 75w-90 should be fine, just use a good brand-I perfer synthetic. You use so little in the rear unit a quart will last a long time.Next is the brake fluid,It doesn't have time interval for service in my manual-usually 2-3years before changing fluid. Yes it is hydro-scopic and will absorb water out of the air.If you decide to change the fluid, make life easier and buy a Mighty-Mite hand vacuum pump brake bleeder. You can do the job easier, cleaner, and no air in the lines if you follow instructions on the package. They cost about $20-25 at Auto-zone auto parts-well worth it and you can use it on your car/truck brakes as well. It comes with hand operated vac pump, hoses, small bottle that the brake fluid will get sucked into. The vac pump sucks the fluid out of the brake caliper bleeder fitting, very simple and clean. Also look on the filler cap of the brakes master cylinders( where the brake lever is sticking out of)- there is usually the information on type of brake fluid to use (engraved into the top of the cap).Use new fluid only and the right type (DOT 4 ?) and never out of an open container. Also brake fluid will also ruin paint if it sets on it very long, (wipe off with wet rag). Have fun working on your scooter. Oh yeah, the rear wheel spinning- if the idle is too high (cold) this may do it, but you said it stops
after it idles down-Mine does not either way. If the wheel turning is agressive and trys to move the scooter it may have a clutch shoe dragging due to a weak spring. Hope this all helps.

[gtexan]

WOW, Kawzak, I can't even begin to tell you how incredibly helpful you've been.  The ONLY thing thats been difficult with having a Kymco scooter is that its sometimes difficult to get all the necessary service information.  You've solved that problem!  Thank you!

As long as you are around, I feel like I should keep asking questions

Thanks for the advice on the brake bleeding system.  That really sounds useful.  The master cylinder for the brake fluid suggests Dot 3 or Dot 4 brake fluid, so I bought a bottle of Dot3/4 fluid.  I figured this would be ok

So as Im pretty new to this, there are a lot of things that I need that I don't have.  So far:
1. Brake Bleeding kit
2. Torque Wrench with proper fittings (?)

Anything else you'd recommend?

[jturner901]

Regarding the flanking lights: Is your scoot Canadian?  My Vitality 50 2T is.  For that matter, so am I.  Anyway, the lower lights are the turn signals indicators.  They have been disconnected and rewired to the upper turn signals which are a factory add-on for the Canadian and possibly some other markets.  They can be removed and rewired back to the original indicators.  The reason for the disconnection is that someone thought that the headlight was too bright to allow the turn indicator lights to be effectively seen.

Regarding the headlight switch, or lack thereof: There is no on off switch on Canadian scoot lights either, because daytime running lights are and industry standard in Canada.  They turn on and off with the ignition.

If you and your scoot are Canadian, there is your answer.  If you are American, you have a scoot that somehow came through the Canadian market.  If you are from somewhere else, you country's rules may apply.

All the best!

Jay

[kawzak]

Hey I didn't think about the possibility of the scooter being of Canadian.Thanks Jrturner-901. At any rate if your state requires a yearly state inspection some state inspection stations (the ones that do motorcycles) know about the blinker location. They may or maynot catch this. I think is looks much better with blinkers in the front body, really looks cleaner-but if you do the swap you may have to put it back if the inspector fails you because of this. I would never think of changing these ,noooooooo. As far as the tools go- many of the bolts are small and don't require much torque. It's difficult to purchase a 3/8" or 1/4" drive CLICK type torque wrench that goes to a low torque scale -they cost in excess of $100.00. but you can purchase a 3/8" drive "I" beam type for about $25.00- they start the scale at -0- and most read in Metric and American, just be sure which numbers you are reading. You will also need a manual to find the torque values of certain fasteners/bolts. When you buy sockets for your torque wrench and or rachet-buy the best you can afford. Have fun!

[OldGuy]

Certified accurate. $20.00!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2696

 

[kawzak]

I stand corrected, a 1/4" click type torque wrench for $20.00!!! now thats a deal.

[AZCycle]

Hey gtexan... looks exactly like mine...And I bought mine used as well. Looks like your questions have been answered.  I don't like riding at night but have been forced to on a few occasions.  One thing I noticed about "our" B&W is that the lighting is really not adequate at all. I ride with the high beam on 100% of the time. What I plan on doing is adding higher intensity bulbs LEDs to the running lights AND adding additional high-intensity LEDs to the empty lower turn signal pods.  I figure this should help with night riding AND make me more visible to oncoming cars. All without adding too much of an electrical load.

Those lower lights are actually the turn signals for the model in Asian countries. But the US/Canada require the turn signals to be higher (more visible) so they just ran the wires up to the handlebar mounted lights.  The orange "bulb" you see below isn't a bulb at all but an orange plastic cap that would fit over the bulb.  It's just an empty socket.

I'll post a topic about the process when I do it (probably next month).

[driver8]

This thread is absolutely perfect - thanks for all the tips. 

I, too, just brought home a used B&W 250 with about 11k km.  It is in great shape except that it doesn't start convincingly and when it does catch it idles rough.  As I understand, it should idle at faster rpm until it warms up a bit.  This  never happens.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks.

[OldGuy]

Just to set the record straight height has nothing to do with turn signals. The problem rests with the separation requirements. From the NHTSA "REQUIREMENTS FOR
MOTORCYCLE MANUFACTURERS":

TABLE IV LOCATION OF REQUIRED EQUIPMENT
Motorcycles, Motor Driven Cycles

Turn signal lamps
No Requirement at or near the front - 1 amber on each side of the vertical centerline at the same height, and having a minimum horizontal separation distance (centerline of lamps) of 16 inches.
Minimum edge to edge separation distance between lamp and headlamp is 4 inches.
At or near the rear - 1 red or amber on each side of the vertical centerline, at the same height and
having a minimum horizontal separation distance (centerline to centerline of lamps) of 9 inches.
Minimum edge to edge separation distance between lamp and tail or stop lamp is 4 inches, when a single
stop and tail lamp is installed on the vertical centerline and the turn signal lamps are red. Not less than 15 inches, nor more than 83 inches

Complete document in pdf here:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/Rulemaking/Articles/Associated%20Files/mcpkg002.pdf

[AZCycle]

This thread is absolutely perfect - thanks for all the tips. 

I, too, just brought home a used B&W 250 with about 11k km.  It is in great shape except that it doesn't start convincingly and when it does catch it idles rough.  As I understand, it should idle at faster rpm until it warms up a bit.  This  never happens.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Could be a few things but probably fuel/air related.  Have you cleaned/replaced the air filter?  When was the last time it had a tune up?  Maybe needs a new spark plug.  If it sat without running for a while, there very well could be varnish built up in the carb bowl and jets.  There is a product called Sea Foam (buy it at any auto parts store). Add it per the directions to a few tanks of gas and it will do WONDERS to clean out the carb. Don't use it constantly, but running a few tanks of gas with it added will do a lot.  Once that cleans things out, you can probably play with the idle/fuel screw to set your idle better.

[driver8]

Thanks for the comments - I appreciate the help.  The scooter was serviced in early August, full service including fluids and a new battery.  I suspect it was not being used much before and since then.  In looking at the battery it is a little low (12.7v) and the readout indicates only 2 'dots' out of 6(?).  I did not get an owner's manual with the scooter so it is a bit of an Easter egg hunt locating things. 

One other thing that came up in another discussion that I did not find an answer to is the engine kill switch.  Is it supposed to be in a particular position (on = the scooter engine will not run, off = the scooter engine will run) when the bike is parked/stored for longer lengths of time and does this affect the amount of draw on the battery?   

Meanwhile, I'll check things out and let you know what I find.