Author Topic: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?  (Read 5573 times)

Henry

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2021, 11:09:04 AM »
@Henry, YES give it a try.
Didn't think of that anymore.

-pls check first with jumpstarting and shortcut starting by connecting those two bolts on your starter relais with a screwdriver or pliers (gloves and no open fuel close by)

-then order an inexpensive aftermarket replacement and put it in

-make sure this big ground cable (what I suggested to bypass) from battery to this motor ground point is in pristine shape and not corroded within 2 cm inside this cableshoe.
Had this issue and took me awhile to find out.

..pls see link..
https://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=31637.0

Good idea about jumpstarting to see if cables are OK ! I'll use a jump starter at the starter connections in help with the regular battery to see if it cranks faster & start !
If everything's under control, you're not going fast enough !

dr.jazz

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2021, 11:16:43 AM »
Sounds possible to you ?

If you didnt notice starter is struggling or hesitates while cranking hot, and also when we take in consideration lower voltage and battery capacity when it's cold which is also a limited factor for the starter. No it is not possible in my opinion!

for god's sake try other fuel  ???
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Henry

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2021, 11:34:13 AM »
If you didnt notice starter is struggling or hesitates while cranking hot, and also when we take in consideration lower voltage and battery capacity when it's cold which is also a limited factor for the starter. No it is not possible in my opinion!

for god's sake try other fuel  ???

I am going to try 95 oct ! That was just an idea ! I need to drive a little bit to empty the fuel tank first. I have no pump and tank to store fuel now.
The starter doesn't seem to struggle, but when it is tired for a while and you have no point to compare to, you think it's ok. What brings me to that idea is that I heard a scooter (Xmax) starting on the street close to me and the cranking seemed faster.

Why the engine has been working good for years on 98 then ? I promess I'll feed with 95 !
If everything's under control, you're not going fast enough !

dr.jazz

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2021, 12:00:44 PM »
My DT also doesent crank fast, you can always try jumpstarting while hot, you need couple second for that.. but for me that is dead end if starter behaves same during the cold and hot start.

Quote
Why the engine has been working good for years on 98 then ? I promess I'll feed with 95 !

With such an attitude then you may wonder such question before any attempt at repair? Dont you?

Main two reasons:

1: engine wear, everything changes over a period of time, when engine is "young" compression is stronger, there is more temp and pressure to better handling the bigger preingntion time....etc
2. during the distillation of oil hundreds of additives are added that can vary what can lead for engine problem that is why (at least in my coutry) sometime when I top up my tank on some gas station I have trouble with engine performance and idle speed, that counts more for my car then scooter, but you get the point.

Why you dont remove all fuel from disassembled scooter, you can use fuel pumpe to remove all present fuel, and you can add few liter of 95 fuel.

What I wrote about the octane value of fuel, I didn't get it out of my head randomy, I know few people who try that premium fuel (in my country its call 100 ocatin) what caused only starting issue...and also beacause I know how much an"impact" higher octane fuel have on ECU calculation because I do that for long time.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 12:24:07 PM by dr.jazz »
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Henry

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2021, 02:43:09 PM »
My DT also doesent crank fast, you can always try jumpstarting while hot, you need couple second for that.. but for me that is dead end if starter behaves same during the cold and hot start.

With such an attitude then you may wonder such question before any attempt at repair? Dont you?

Main two reasons:

1: engine wear, everything changes over a period of time, when engine is "young" compression is stronger, there is more temp and pressure to better handling the bigger preingntion time....etc
2. during the distillation of oil hundreds of additives are added that can vary what can lead for engine problem that is why (at least in my coutry) sometime when I top up my tank on some gas station I have trouble with engine performance and idle speed, that counts more for my car then scooter, but you get the point.

Why you dont remove all fuel from disassembled scooter, you can use fuel pumpe to remove all present fuel, and you can add few liter of 95 fuel.

What I wrote about the octane value of fuel, I didn't get it out of my head randomy, I know few people who try that premium fuel (in my country its call 100 ocatin) what caused only starting issue...and also beacause I know how much an"impact" higher octane fuel have on ECU calculation because I do that for long time.

I get it now, thanks.

You're right again concerning the help of the fuel pump, I didn't think about it !

I remember I changed the starter on the 300 not long before storing it, so I stole it from the 300 to put it on the 350, as jump starting didn't help.

And it worked !!!! The 350 starts immediately, I went for a classic 15 min ride like I usually do for my job, then shut it off for 5 min, then on, and no problem, starts with ease, like before.

Before going to my workshop, I went to the gas station to fill a 5 liter plastic tank with 95 to bring it with me (without shutting off the engine, otherwise it may not start after that), and decided to give a try on the starter before 95 as the tank is full.

I don't think I need 95 right now in my 350 as it now starts normally (I will feed with 95 anyway from now) but I will use for the 300, as the problem was obviously not the starter !
I now have to buy a new starter for the 300, and will feed with 95, hoping it will run as expected.

I'm so happy than it runs well now, thanks to all of you for your advises.

Here is plan now, I'm going to fix (hopefully) the 300 and keep it as spare, it has no value on the market (11 years old !).
The 350 is euro3 and might be banned in a year or 2 from Brussels because emission restriction, so I'm going to sell it now as it still has a little bit of value and order the new 350 euro5.

Now I need a starter  ;D
If everything's under control, you're not going fast enough !

dr.jazz

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2021, 05:37:53 PM »
Hm intresting...

Can you use starter from 350 and 95 fuel before you buy new starter?
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Ruffus

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2021, 06:34:26 PM »
@Henry, thanks for your resume, that's good news.
 All the best in your job, Merry Christmas and have a save riding.
Stay with us in this forum once in a while, we can always learn from each other.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 06:36:24 PM by Ruffus »
Happy and safe scootering, Ruffus

CROSSBOLT

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2021, 12:59:05 AM »
This whole thing was a slow STARTER?
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

Henry

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2021, 07:50:10 AM »
Hm intresting...

Can you use starter from 350 and 95 fuel before you buy new starter?

Yes, I will put the sick 350 starter + 95 on the 300 and test
If everything's under control, you're not going fast enough !

Henry

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2021, 08:25:10 AM »
This whole thing was a slow STARTER?

It seems like ! But it wasn't tired at the hear, wasn't struggling at all, sometimes when the engine was hot I could try to start 10 times for few seconds before the stater starts to slow down, it wasn't just spinning fast enough, but not due to powering issue. I realized that when I heard another scooter starting, thinking mmh his starter spins faster than mine, may be an issue ?

At least troubleshooting taught me a lot of useful things ! It wasn't easy and obvious.

Now I have to do a regular maintenance in order to sell it, new oil and filter, new brake pads and a new rear brake disc. Air filter, spark plug and coil are already new.
I signed yesterday for the new 350 (Euro5), will be delivered jan 5th. 

If everything's under control, you're not going fast enough !

Henry

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2021, 08:27:17 AM »
@Henry, thanks for your resume, that's good news.
 All the best in your job, Merry Christmas and have a save riding.
Stay with us in this forum once in a while, we can always learn from each other.

Thanks Ruffus, same for you.

I'll stay on this forum, I like to read and comment. Now I have to put the 300 back on track, I may open another troubleshooting post  :D
If everything's under control, you're not going fast enough !

dr.jazz

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2021, 06:51:00 PM »
any news with dt300?
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Henry

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2021, 04:32:40 PM »
any news with dt300?

Yes ! I put the bad starter + 95 octane on the 300, it struggles to start like the 350 before !
I am going to order a starter motor, it's super expensive !! 180 euro, wow...

The 350 works like a charm, it will be sold next week when the new 350 will be ready at the dealership, should be in my possession next Tuesday.
If everything's under control, you're not going fast enough !

CROSSBOLT

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2021, 09:56:57 PM »
Yes ! I put the bad starter + 95 octane on the 300, it struggles to start like the 350 before !
I am going to order a starter motor, it's super expensive !! 180 euro, wow...

The 350 works like a charm, it will be sold next week when the new 350 will be ready at the dealership, should be in my possession next Tuesday.
You haven't an electric shop in Brussels to fix a PM field starter? There is not that much to the thing? Brushes and bearings is about it. Personally, I would disassemble, inspect, clean, lubricate, redress or replace brushes before replacing.
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

Ruffus

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Re: DT 300 - fail to start - TPS voltage value at 0 position ?
« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2021, 09:55:25 AM »
As CROSSBOLT says, either refurbish or take one aftermarket starter motor. Safes you idle time.
Had good experience lately.
Happy and safe scootering, Ruffus

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