Kymco now funding Harley Davidson Electric bikes

[SemperVee]

 Whuda thunk?
https://electrek.co/2021/12/13/harley-davidsons-livewire-to-become-first-publicly-traded-electric-motorcycle-company/

[pa-outdoorsman]

So those machines are likely to have a lot of KYMCO components going forward, I would imagine...

[pa-outdoorsman]

Also, is it correct for me to assume that all these new electric "motorcycles" are actually automatics, since being driven by an electric motor? If no clutch or gears, this eliminates the major difference that has separated a "motorcycle" from a "scooter" over the years. I understand there are other differences (running boards vs. pegs, tire size, rear suspension, etc.) but seems to me traditional motorcycle riders have always looked down upon automatic transmissions in their bikes. Wonder how that'll look as we head into the future of two-wheeled riding...

[Kansas kymco]

Makes sense,  BMW bought Harley and BMW relies heavily on Kymco for parts.  The baby  boomers are  growing old fast and the following generations  are not as heavily into motorcycles.

In fact I was moving from motorcycles to scooters.  For the time being I will be riding a mobility scooter  with a blazing top speed of 7 mph. If/when I get my left leg back I will reward myself with a  UTV.

[souzamoto]

Makes sense,  BMW bought Harley and BMW relies heavily on Kymco for parts.  The baby  boomers are  growing old fast and the following generations  are not as heavily into motorcycles.

In fact I was moving from motorcycles to scooters.  For the time being I will be riding a mobility scooter  with a blazing top speed of 7 mph. If/when I get my left leg back I will reward myself with a  UTV.

BMW does not own HD, nor is it a major stock holder.

[rjs987]

Also, is it correct for me to assume that all these new electric "motorcycles" are actually automatics, since being driven by an electric motor? If no clutch or gears, this eliminates the major difference that has separated a "motorcycle" from a "scooter" over the years. I understand there are other differences (running boards vs. pegs, tire size, rear suspension, etc.) but seems to me traditional motorcycle riders have always looked down upon automatic transmissions in their bikes. Wonder how that'll look as we head into the future of two-wheeled riding...

That "major difference" has been slowly disappearing for many years now with the introduction of DCT. I've seen many die-hard "I'll never ride a scooter" riders transition over to a DCT/automatic over the last 5+ years now and they love it. Many of them don't ever bother with the manual mode shifting any more due to the convenience of the automatic mode. To me the major difference between motorcycle and scooter has been a FLAT step through floor and the engine mounted on the swing arm, that last bit being the most defining to me. Thus my belief that scooters like the Burgman 650, BMW c650, AK 550, etc. are NOT really true scooters but motorcycles that are just dressed sort of like a scooter.


Would it really be called an automatic transmission if there is nothing more than simply connecting the electric drive motor directly to the rear drive sprocket via the belt drive or possibly even a reduction gear set at most?

I also notice in that article that when HD spun off their electric mc division to become its own company called LiveWire they dropped the price of the bike. I guess that confirms yet again that simply stamping the HD label on it makes any bike cost more.

Agree that there will likely be a lot of Kymco parts put into the LiveWire One model or certainly subsequent models that are sure to come out.

[klaviator]

Also, is it correct for me to assume that all these new electric "motorcycles" are actually automatics, since being driven by an electric motor? If no clutch or gears, this eliminates the major difference that has separated a "motorcycle" from a "scooter" over the years. I understand there are other differences (running boards vs. pegs, tire size, rear suspension, etc.) but seems to me traditional motorcycle riders have always looked down upon automatic transmissions in their bikes. Wonder how that'll look as we head into the future of two-wheeled riding...

I don't consider the transmissions to be the difference between motorcycles and scooters.  There have been plenty of scooters with manual trannys and plenty of motorcycles with automatics.  Honda will be selling a motorcycle here in 2022 with a CVT.

[Tromper]

Huh, what model will have a CVT vs. a DCT?

I don't consider the transmissions to be the difference between motorcycles and scooters.  There have been plenty of scooters with manual trannys and plenty of motorcycles with automatics.  Honda will be selling a motorcycle here in 2022 with a CVT.

[pa-outdoorsman]

Huh, what model will have a CVT vs. a DCT?

In the U.S. market, pretty sure he's referring to the Navi.

[rjs987]

In the U.S. market, pretty sure he's referring to the Navi.

Agreed. But if anyone really looks at one of those they'll notice that it's closer to a scooter than a motorcycle with a swing arm mounted engine. Yet still not since it's missing the true step through of a scooter by placing the gas tank up high and in front like a regular motorcyce. And since there's no room for storage under the seat that is relocated to that large-ish box (15L) up front bottom under the fuel tank. I noticed reading about it that the seat height is taller than my Burgman 650 was and just an inch lower than my AK 550. Oh, and that lever on the left grip is not a clutch, nor is it the rear brake... per se... but it is the parking brake. Honda has for many years now been producing several in between or cross over types of bikes that blend between several classes of bikes.

[john grinsel]

I see no or limited future for electric bikes---cost/weight/range

[Tromper]

Kinda of a question of refuel/charging speed IMHO.

Around here I'm seeing them used in place of the sub moped gas motors, basically stuff that'll hit ~20-25mph without the rider raising a sweat.  Most have a bicycle format, including decorative pedals on some that are obviously not meant to be pedaled any great distance.  Kinda like old skool mopeds.
These seem to run ~10-20 mile range, & in an urban/suburban setting this won't get you an afternoon of riding, but it'll get you a cheap grocery getter, & commuter that can slink up the bike paths without getting picked off by the cops like the gas motors do eventually, as long as you're not being too much of a twit about it.


I live right on a MUP and I see an increasing number of these.

I see no or limited future for electric bikes---cost/weight/range

[klaviator]

I see no or limited future for electric bikes---cost/weight/range

I do but it will take a breakthrough in battery technology. 

[rjs987]

I do but it will take a breakthrough in battery technology.

Or government mandate.

[Taichungman]

Whuda thunk?
https://electrek.co/2021/12/13/harley-davidsons-livewire-to-become-first-publicly-traded-electric-motorcycle-company/

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I Thunk Kymco is pretty smart. They are not investing their cash in the deal but raising the capital from investors through a PIPE deal. Plus they're getting their name linked with another well known company, Harley,  and making money on selling the parts and tech they have. And, they won't be in direct competition because Kymco's  main business is motor and electric scooters.
I agree with some on here that electric motorcycles have a long way to go to be viable and profitable. Scooters are big business in Asia and Europe because of the low cost, plus they have lots of storage capacity.  Electric scooters ( Gorogo and Kymco) in Taiwan cities are making headway because they have 100's of  battery stations with replaceable batteries located all over the city. Bottom line is that you could ride your electric scooter all around Taiwan and never worry about running out of gas or juice.