Problems with the electric starter? or battery?

[gtexan]

I currently have a 2002 Kymco Bet and Win 250 scooter, and have been having some very slight trouble with the electric starter.

The way the starter works is:
Place key into ignition and turn to the right.  This turns on the digital panel
Turn the engine stop switch to off.  This turns off the stop, allowing the engine to run
Depress the rear brake.  This connects the electrical system to the starter.
Press the electric starter until it starts

If I've been running the scooter, the battery panel lights up with a full charge before starting, and it starts very quickly (less than 2 seconds)

If I remove the scooter battery and attach it to my maintainer before putting it into the scooter to start, the battery panel lights up with 3/6 lights and it starts very quickly (less than 2 seconds)

If I leave the battery in the scooter and let it sit for more than 2 days, the battery panel initially lights up with only 2/6 lights at first, and then these quickly drop to 0/6 if I depress the left brake.  I cant even get the starter to attempt to start it when its like this.  The panel dims to almost nothing, as if there is no battery power.

If I let it sit for a while (usually around 1 minute), the battery seems to get slightly stronger, and eventually it starts.  It usually takes a few seconds longer when starting (maybe around 4-6 seconds)

Im wondering why it seems like the battery drains when I first turn it on, and why it seems to increase its charge before starting.  Is this normal?

[OldGuy]

From the description it sounds as if the battery is only taking a surface charge. Have the battery tested and be prepared to replace it.

[kawzak]

I agree with Oldguy,about the battery taking a surface charge, but you did not say how old the battery is, or if you have any other devices drawing voltage from the battery. Also, Ive seen low milage on a machine but time killed the battery from sulfation-not enough use/charges. Here is a test to check how good the battery is.If you charge the battery fully, put it in the scooter and hook it up. Then hook up a voltage meter to the terminals. (See the chart below) While starting (or attempting to start)the scooter watch the voltage. If the voltage drops to less than 10 volts while the starter is turning the engine over, the battery is bad and needs to be replaced.(probably has a bad cell from sulfation) Each cell represents 2+volts. That is why you see 6 fill caps on a battery.  A new charged maintenance free battery should show about 12.9-13.0 volts. Here is a chart for maintenance free battery voltage, percentage of charge
12.9-13.0 volt    100% charge
12.6-12.8 volt      75% charge
12.3-12.5 volt      50% charge 
12.0-12.2 volt      25% charge
11.9 or less           0% charge
Kind of decieving looking isn't it. but this is out of the book information.  A Regular (non-maintenance free battery ) usually runs about .3 to .4 of a volt less on the chart. Now you say- what about that draw down when starting?, pulling the battery down to around 10 volts? well it takes alot of amps to crank over that engine-especially cold, so the voltage drop is normal, but a good battery will usually not drop below 10.5 volts while cranking the engine over. This is why the electronic stuff( CPU, electronic fuel injection,etc) operates on 9 volts, so every thing will work like it is supposed to while starting. Hope this information helps in the future.           This information applies to cars, motorcycles, and the like that is equipped with a 12 volt battery

[gtexan]

Thanks so much for all the helpful replies!
I agree that it may only be taking a surface charge--as for the age of the battery, Im not really sure.  It came with the scooter, which I purchased used.  It looks fairly new (no corrosion or anything) but again, the scooter was very rarely used.

As for other power sources draining the battery, Im really not sure.  It may be that Im not using the scooter correctly.

After riding, and I supposed to leave the engine kill switch in the on position (where the scooter engine will NOT run) or in the off position (where the scooter engine WILL run)?  In the manual, its very confusing, but it does say leaving it in the incorrect position can overcharge your battery

Also, is it possible to turn the headlights off?  My scooter manual shows an image of where the lights on/off switch would be, but my scooter doesn't actually have this!  Is this something strange with my particular scooter, or is it normal?  When I turn off the scooter, the lights go out, but as soon as I put the key in, they are on (as running lights I guess?)

Thanks!

[geezerbob]

You won't find an on/off headlight switch on any bike (legally) sold in the US.  If the engine is running, the light must be on.

[gtexan]

Ah, I understand.  What about the two smallish lights that are orange below the main headlight.  They aren't the turn signals (those are on the handlebars), but I can't figure out a way to get them to come on.  Any ideas?

Geezerbob, thanks for the quick answer.  It makes me feel a lot better to nkow that my bike isn't missing something vital!  I was hoping it wasn't draining the battery too

[kawzak]

The (2) small bulbs directly below and in the same reflector housing are on when the headlight in on on my P-250, although they are clear bulbs in mine-not amber. To help you on the battery situation, if it came in the scooter and it is a KYMCO battery it's probably origional, and probably bad (age, and not charged often enough-monthly). if it is a Yuasa or other make it probably was changed-may still be bad if it was not charged enough with the correct type of charger and sulfated up inside between the plates.  Charge it overnight with a Smart charger-NOT a regular charger as these can overcharge and destroy a battery also if left on too long or done too many times. A smart charger is one that will turn itself off after the battery is at a full charge.(Wal-Mart $30.00 for a small 1-1/2 amp-schumaker brand) Battery Tender brand being the best in my opinion (1-1/2 to 2 amp) They will fully charge a battery then go into a float mode and only give the battery periodic milliamps (very small charge if needed) these chargers do not overcharge a battery. Also after charging fully- refer to the voltage readings I posted to see battery voltage /condition-Or you can check specific gravity of the acid with a hydrometer-They are cheap and come with instructions on how to use. It is like a miniture turkey baster, but with some small balls in side the glass or plastic tube. It has lines on the side and you just squeeze the bulb to suck up battery acid out of each cell -but require prying the top seal off if a maintenance free type/or removing the (6) small caps on top of the battery if a regular type. I suggest if you do, do this with the battery out of the scooter and away from anything you don't want ruined if you happen to spill some battery acid (sulfuric acid) it will eat holes in clothes. The voltage tester is much easier, cleaner and simplier- buy a digital and the best you can afford. A fluke brand meter is an industrial type tool (expensive but last forever)- but you can get a Radio shack brand for about $20.00 and they work very well. Remenber don't be fooled by reading 12 volts or so, it must be 12.8 to 12.9 volts (if maint free type) or 12.5-12.6 volts if regular type -to be at full charge- then check voltage drop when starting/turning over. It really is easy and you can tell when battery is starting to go (won't hold the voltage after charging/sitting 2hrs). In the old days a battery that was going bad would start to crank the motor more slowly. (remember they did not last as many months or years) Now they last longer, but will just quit (short between cells).  I know I'm long winded- but I like to help if I can.

[Aceforever]

I agree with Oldguy,about the battery taking a surface charge, but you did not say how old the battery is, or if you have any other devices drawing voltage from the battery. Also, Ive seen low milage on a machine but time killed the battery from sulfation-not enough use/charges. Here is a test to check how good the battery is.If you charge the battery fully, put it in the scooter and hook it up. Then hook up a voltage meter to the terminals. (See the chart below) While starting (or attempting to start)the scooter watch the voltage. If the voltage drops to less than 10 volts while the starter is turning the engine over, the battery is bad and needs to be replaced.(probably has a bad cell from sulfation) Each cell represents 2+volts. That is why you see 6 fill caps on a battery.  A new charged maintenance free battery should show about 12.9-13.0 volts. Here is a chart for maintenance free battery voltage, percentage of charge
12.9-13.0 volt    100% charge
12.6-12.8 volt      75% charge
12.3-12.5 volt      50% charge 
12.0-12.2 volt      25% charge
11.9 or less           0% charge
Kind of decieving looking isn't it. but this is out of the book information.  A Regular (non-maintenance free battery ) usually runs about .3 to .4 of a volt less on the chart. Now you say- what about that draw down when starting?, pulling the battery down to around 10 volts? well it takes alot of amps to crank over that engine-especially cold, so the voltage drop is normal, but a good battery will usually not drop below 10.5 volts while cranking the engine over. This is why the electronic stuff( CPU, electronic fuel injection,etc) operates on 9 volts, so every thing will work like it is supposed to while starting. Hope this information helps in the future.           This information applies to cars, motorcycles, and the like that is equipped with a 12 volt battery

This is very interesting. I used multimeter and it is showing 11.9 or less on my battery. Does that mean it hasn't been charged at all? How do I charge it? My regulars trips from A to B is around 15-20mins. Please help me not what to do here? I have a Agility 125 2006, and done just over 30,000kms. I wonder if I need a new battery haven't changed it since I bought the scooter maybe going onto 8yrs? This model doesn't have a good kick start either I tried countless times and can't get it to work? Was working good the other day and then it can't start at all? I put a new spark plug in. Might look at the fuse and see if anything?